The Lack of Work Ethic and the Need for Laborers
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@art_of_shred said:
Who pissed in your Cheerios?
@scottalanmiller lately it seems.
@art_of_shred said:
If you don't like that the proper sources weren't credited, step up to the plate and give the proper credit.
I did. It was the very first reply to the post.
@art_of_shred said:
Either way, it doesn't change the wisdom the words express. That was my point. Maybe you disagree, which is perfectly fine.
I happen to agree in this case, but that is only because I went back and read the original source to confirm that the quote was not taken out of context. That was my only point.
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I'm curious; why does it matter who said something? What bearing does that have on the truth of what was said? Personally, I read the words and agreed. If I saw who said it, that would only add credibility to that person, in my opinion. Do words only get credit for you if they come from a person you have deemed credible? Not trying to argue, just genuinely curious, as that is exactly the opposite of how I would process it.
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@art_of_shred said:
I'm curious; why does it matter who said something? What bearing does that have on the truth of what was said?
Depends. For most people, IMHO, the source is the only thing that lends credence to the statement. If homeless people tell you that hard work gets you nowhere it means one thing. If Bill Gates says it, it means another. And if you don't care who said something because you are basing your agreement on whether you agree or not then knowing who said it at all is pointless.
So I say, it's fine to skip saying who said something because you are just repeating something that yu agree with. But stating who said something and having it not be correct matters because a lot of people only take advice based on the fame or stature of who said it.
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@art_of_shred said:
I'm curious; why does it matter who said something? What bearing does that have on the truth of what was said?
In the case of something "copy/pasted" around facebook? I very simply ignore it. I do not even bother to read it.
In this instance that copy/paste was reposted here, where I ignore very little.But I refuse to take copy/pasted out of context words at face value.
A good example of something being taken out of context (and at least bringing the OP around once he realized it) is the recent hate mongering post against Caitlyn Jenner. Some guy posted a random photo spewing hate and prejudice to FB, it went viral, and then oops, that photo was created by a cross-dresser in an effort to overcome severe hate crime injuries.
This is why, yes this stuff should be validated before blindly posted. And if it is blindly posted, I will generally ignore it.
The only reason I did not was because of WHERE it was posted. A community of individuals that I thought were generally more thoughtful than the norm.
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The thing that everyone needs to remember is that not everyone thinks or processes things the same way. We have a decent size Aspie contingent around here, they all DO NOT process things like everyone else. We also have people that while are in IT are not mature or have much wisdom either in experience or in age. Part of being a community is while you might not agree with something someone has posted or said that the tenor of responses can be at least civil and help guide those that aren't at your level to grow to your level.
Not to be too much of a Mother here but remember your mom saying: "It's not what you say but how you say it?", that totally fits here guys.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@art_of_shred said:
I'm curious; why does it matter who said something? What bearing does that have on the truth of what was said?
Depends. For most people, IMHO, the source is the only thing that lends credence to the statement. If homeless people tell you that hard work gets you nowhere it means one thing. If Bill Gates says it, it means another. And if you don't care who said something because you are basing your agreement on whether you agree or not then knowing who said it at all is pointless.
So I say, it's fine to skip saying who said something because you are just repeating something that yu agree with. But stating who said something and having it not be correct matters because a lot of people only take advice based on the fame or stature of who said it.
I guess that's really the point. I weigh what I hear against my own values/judgment/opinions and then assign value to what I have heard, rather than just trusting things I hear from people who I have deemed worthy of influencing my values/judgment/opinions. It's the incoming information that's on trial, not me.
Of course, there is always a difference between the same sentence coming from Mother Teresa and Adolph Hitler, but that's not really what I am talking about. Even then, I care more about what's said than who said it. After all, Hitler wasn't an idiot and Teresa wasn't a genius.
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@Minion-Queen said:
We also have people that while are in IT are not mature or have much wisdom
Hey!
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@Minion-Queen said:
The thing that everyone needs to remember is that not everyone thinks or processes things the same way. We have a decent size Aspie contingent around here, they all DO NOT process things like everyone else. We also have people that while are in IT are not mature or have much wisdom either in experience or in age. Part of being a community is while you might not agree with something someone has posted or said that the tenor of responses can be at least civil and help guide those that aren't at your level to grow to your level.
Not to be too much of a Mother here but remember your mom saying: "It's not what you say but how you say it?", that totally fits here guys.
I really hate this quote - I, like Scott, generally say the words I mean to say - my tone has little actual meaning.. yet I find myself in trouble all the time because people read into a tone that I personally pay little attention to.
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@art_of_shred said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@art_of_shred said:
I'm curious; why does it matter who said something? What bearing does that have on the truth of what was said?
Depends. For most people, IMHO, the source is the only thing that lends credence to the statement. If homeless people tell you that hard work gets you nowhere it means one thing. If Bill Gates says it, it means another. And if you don't care who said something because you are basing your agreement on whether you agree or not then knowing who said it at all is pointless.
So I say, it's fine to skip saying who said something because you are just repeating something that yu agree with. But stating who said something and having it not be correct matters because a lot of people only take advice based on the fame or stature of who said it.
I guess that's really the point. I weigh what I hear against my own values/judgment/opinions and then assign value to what I have heard, rather than just trusting things I hear from people who I have deemed worthy of influencing my values/judgment/opinions. It's the incoming information that's on trial, not me.
Of course, there is always a difference between the same sentence coming from Mother Teresa and Adolph Hitler, but that's not really what I am talking about. Even then, I care more about what's said than who said it. After all, Hitler wasn't an idiot and Teresa wasn't a genius.
Yes but that drives even more to the point that Scott was making. But we've already drifted so far off topic that I'll just stop.
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@Dashrender said:
@Minion-Queen said:
The thing that everyone needs to remember is that not everyone thinks or processes things the same way. We have a decent size Aspie contingent around here, they all DO NOT process things like everyone else. We also have people that while are in IT are not mature or have much wisdom either in experience or in age. Part of being a community is while you might not agree with something someone has posted or said that the tenor of responses can be at least civil and help guide those that aren't at your level to grow to your level.
Not to be too much of a Mother here but remember your mom saying: "It's not what you say but how you say it?", that totally fits here guys.
I really hate this quote - I, like Scott, generally say the words I mean to say - my tone has little actual meaning.. yet I find myself in trouble all the time because people read into a tone that I personally pay little attention to.
There are nice ways to say things and rude ways to say things. If you're not thinking about that and just say things, it's probably coming off under the "rude" category. That's not the reader's problem; it's yours, for not being conscientious of the manner in which you are communicating. So, while you may not mean anything by it, your lack of attention (read: giving a crap) is conveyed. If you don't like that, simply pay attention to the way you write/speak and use softer speech. It's a real issue for the "Aspies", and I often wonder if they can even perceive it, in order to make the adjustment. And I don't mean this as a slam on anyone, just offering some clarity.
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There's rude and then there's just being to sensitive. Frankly I think we're too worried today about bruising everyone else's feelings that we actually find it more difficult to communicate today than it was 20-30 years ago.
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@Dashrender said:
There's rude and then there's just being to sensitive. Frankly I think we're too worried today about bruising everyone else's feelings that we actually find it more difficult to communicate today than it was 20-30 years ago.
In some ways, and this is one of them, I think modern communications is harder. It is very hard to convey accurately when someone is mad, angry, mean or just being read into or read incorrectly (or made a typo.) Lacking body language and vocal tone means that we have to be able to write far better than ever before.
We also have the issue of people walking away mid conversation which never used to happen. You used to have to actually turn your back and walk away from someone you were talking to and acknowledge openly that you had given up or were admitting you were wrong or whatever by doing so. But online people just stop posting and you don't know if they walked away, died, lost power, had to feed the cat or whatever.
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@Dashrender said:
There's rude and then there's just being to sensitive. Frankly I think we're too worried today about bruising everyone else's feelings that we actually find it more difficult to communicate today than it was 20-30 years ago.
In general, very true. Personally, not at all. I'm pretty old-school. If you have a problem with something I said, toughen up and deal with it. I don't tend to sugar coat my words for all of the pansies.
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@art_of_shred said:
@Dashrender said:
There's rude and then there's just being to sensitive. Frankly I think we're too worried today about bruising everyone else's feelings that we actually find it more difficult to communicate today than it was 20-30 years ago.
In general, very true. Personally, not at all. I'm pretty old-school. If you have a problem with something I said, toughen up and deal with it. I don't tend to sugar coat my words for all of the pansies.
You know, I read this and thought, "wow, I really sugar-coated that". If that had been in actual conversation and not in this forum, it would have been said a bit more matter-of-fact than that.
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@art_of_shred said:
@Dashrender said:
@Minion-Queen said:
The thing that everyone needs to remember is that not everyone thinks or processes things the same way. We have a decent size Aspie contingent around here, they all DO NOT process things like everyone else. We also have people that while are in IT are not mature or have much wisdom either in experience or in age. Part of being a community is while you might not agree with something someone has posted or said that the tenor of responses can be at least civil and help guide those that aren't at your level to grow to your level.
Not to be too much of a Mother here but remember your mom saying: "It's not what you say but how you say it?", that totally fits here guys.
I really hate this quote - I, like Scott, generally say the words I mean to say - my tone has little actual meaning.. yet I find myself in trouble all the time because people read into a tone that I personally pay little attention to.
There are nice ways to say things and rude ways to say things. If you're not thinking about that and just say things, it's probably coming off under the "rude" category. That's not the reader's problem; it's yours, for not being conscientious of the manner in which you are communicating. So, while you may not mean anything by it, your lack of attention (read: giving a crap) is conveyed. If you don't like that, simply pay attention to the way you write/speak and use softer speech. It's a real issue for the "Aspies", and I often wonder if they can even perceive it, in order to make the adjustment. And I don't mean this as a slam on anyone, just offering some clarity.
I often struggle to understand why something I said upset someone, because my intentions behind what I said were pure and honest and then it's taken way out of context or by what I meant by it. It's very frustrating for me and them.
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@art_of_shred said:
@art_of_shred said:
@Dashrender said:
There's rude and then there's just being to sensitive. Frankly I think we're too worried today about bruising everyone else's feelings that we actually find it more difficult to communicate today than it was 20-30 years ago.
In general, very true. Personally, not at all. I'm pretty old-school. If you have a problem with something I said, toughen up and deal with it. I don't tend to sugar coat my words for all of the pansies.
You know, I read this and thought, "wow, I really sugar-coated that". If that had been in actual conversation and not in this forum, it would have been said a bit more matter-of-fact than that.
You meant to say "I don't care about bruising your feeling, I just tell you how it is, if you don't like it, tough!" LOL
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@Minion-Queen said:
The US Education system sucks. Everything is brought down to the lowest level of student in the class room. A middle level student that doesn't care is ok in this system. But if you are smart you are punished for it. We also have something called common core (it's horrible). My son was reading before he started school they refused to allow him to get a chapter book out cause that would make other kids that don't read feel bad. He didn't stay in public school we pulled him out and homeschooled.
Kids only know how to do 2 things here: Take tests that don't actually prepare them for anything. And rely on someone else to hand them something later on.
That's because it only exists for indoctrination.
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@Dashrender said:
There's rude and then there's just being to sensitive. Frankly I think we're too worried today about bruising everyone else's feelings that we actually find it more difficult to communicate today than it was 20-30 years ago.
being politically correct is just dumb. Yet, many employers will fire for not being PC these days.
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Why?
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Minion-Queen said:
The US Education system sucks. Everything is brought down to the lowest level of student in the class room. A middle level student that doesn't care is ok in this system. But if you are smart you are punished for it. We also have something called common core (it's horrible). My son was reading before he started school they refused to allow him to get a chapter book out cause that would make other kids that don't read feel bad. He didn't stay in public school we pulled him out and homeschooled.
Kids only know how to do 2 things here: Take tests that don't actually prepare them for anything. And rely on someone else to hand them something later on.
That's because it only exists for indoctrination.
Part of why we homeschooled. Our son got an awesome education. Who can beat a one student to one teacher ratio? Unlimited resources. Learning tailored to the student. Graduated at 15 spent the last 2 years interning for an IT company. Is on the way to being a PBX Engineer and is able to handle most all basic helpdesk work before the age of 18.
