My New Company - Dara IT
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@Breffni-Potter said:
I.e an Exchange Server VM and a DC/DNS/DHCP/AD VM would be billed as 2 separate servers.
So the expected price just doubled. That's big. If you say "flat rate by server" to a company, the literally think that the rate is one price per server. Not one price, maybe, per "operating system instance." The people making these agreements won't even know what that means. A desktop is a desktop, why is a server not a server? Make sense?
And a VM takes far less management than a physical machine. Why would each VM cost the same as something so much bigger?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Goes back to work-load, but bearing in mind the website is not the contract or scope of work.
Not to you it isn't. But to a customer, it will easily feel like a bait and switch. Lure in with what looks very much like a flat, predictable rate. Then find out you are going into a negotiation where you could easily pay four times what you thought that the flat rate was going to be. And then finding out that it isn't flat still, but if you use the servers as normal, the rate might change on you in ways you can't predict.
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Business alignment is something that I have put tons and tons of thought into having seen it tear companies apart while everyone was attempting to do the right thing. It's something that SMBs miss. Both the IT people and the business people - it is one of those things that keeps SMBs in the small category, they miss when they are getting into relationships that are not set up for success. Mostly because they fail to empathize for the other party and think about how the relationship will look once set up and running and how that will cause people to want, or even need, to behave.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Those are all separate services. AD DC, DNS and DHCP are three unique things that can be run together, separately or any part of them not at all.
Yes they are but they are treated as combined. All are needed for a functional network, whether you only run AD or run all 3.
@scottalanmiller said:
I'm confused. Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying you will just turn down the customer?
I'm saying that it is impossible for a customer to immediately book and agree a service like this. This is not Amazon, there is no pick an item, add to basket, pay by credit card then you get it. So the scenario you are describing will never happen.
@scottalanmiller said:
So even though they act as a single server, you will bill for each one as if it was unique? Doesn't seem like good customer value. How are you defining a "server"? Some people see that as a cluster, some as a physical machine, some as a VM, some as a service, some as a container.
Defining it by the workload of the device, the maintenance work required,
@scottalanmiller said:
Not to you it isn't. But to a customer, it will easily feel like a bait and switch. Lure in with what looks very much like a flat, predictable rate.
Yes but for your example said customer is expecting to pay £75 per month to manage 200 servers. When the £75 clearly states "per server" how per server is defined, you should talk to us about.
@scottalanmiller said:
And a VM takes far less management than a physical machine. Why would each VM cost the same as something so much bigger?
Because Exchange needs the same level of management and care whether it's physical or virtual. Which you know
Virtual Exchange helps but not massively. -
@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Those are all separate services. AD DC, DNS and DHCP are three unique things that can be run together, separately or any part of them not at all.
Yes they are but they are treated as combined. All are needed for a functional network, whether you only run AD or run all 3.
That would apply to many Nginx services, a load balancer and a database farm too, though. Like MangoLassi... it is all one thing but has many different services that combine to make it, even though each is also used independently.
AD, DNS and DHCP are not all needed. AD and DNS have zero reliance on DHCP. DNS has no reliance on AD. Only AD needs DNS of all of those. And none of the three are needed for a fully functional network.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
So even though they act as a single server, you will bill for each one as if it was unique? Doesn't seem like good customer value. How are you defining a "server"? Some people see that as a cluster, some as a physical machine, some as a VM, some as a service, some as a container.
Defining it by the workload of the device, the maintenance work required,
Then as a customer I'd think that a cluster would be a single workload, not many. It's one thing to me, typically.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Not to you it isn't. But to a customer, it will easily feel like a bait and switch. Lure in with what looks very much like a flat, predictable rate.
Yes but for your example said customer is expecting to pay £75 per month to manage 200 servers. When the £75 clearly states "per server" how per server is defined, you should talk to us about.
Playing a game of defining "server" when to a customer there is a common definition (the physical thing they bought called a server that they can pick up and hold) doesn't feel right. This feels like a game of redefining words. I realize that in IT server can mean many things, but if you need to play that game, don't make the website look like you have a solid definition and a set price. How do you demonstrate a set price if the thing for which it is set is not defined?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
And a VM takes far less management than a physical machine. Why would each VM cost the same as something so much bigger?
Because Exchange needs the same level of management and care whether it's physical or virtual. Which you know
Virtual Exchange helps but not massively.But then, why would Exchange, which requires a ton of work, be the same as AD which requires "none"? Virtual Exchange or physical Exchange at the service level is about the same. But at the server level is a bit different.
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Having read though the...almost insane level of typing in such a short space of time, I'll lay out a few items for clarity.
- @scottalanmiller Thank you for the detailed feedback, very helpful.
- Having read through it...I'm pretty convinced I need to change my pricing strategy and messaging.
What I might do is create a separate site. Home.DaraIT.co.uk which is entirely focused for that market, so there is no confusion mixed messaging.
Then for the business users, spend more time on the site about education, rather than trying to tie up knots contract wise and (to my annoyance) you are right that it is near impossible.
As a preference, would you prefer to have me on retainer per month or only be invoiced per hour as a business customer.
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IMO most businesses not looking for low end support will avoid a MSP providing any level of support to home users. I know I would.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Having read though the...almost insane level of typing in such a short space of time, I'll lay out a few items for clarity.
Welcome to this thing called @scottalanmiller
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@thecreativeone91 said:
IMO most businesses not looking for low end support will avoid a MSP providing any level of support to home users. I know I would.
Is there a business decision behind that? Surely that's the same as saying "Oh I won't use that level of internet provider, I want this provider" and pay £££ for a connection. I'm not targeting the average PC world user. I'm trying to aim elsewhere.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Is there a business decision behind that? Surely that's the same as saying "Oh I won't use that level of internet provider, I want this provider" and pay £££ for a connection.
I would not avoid an IT firm that supports home users just for that reason, but I would be skeptical of their ability to support my business.
The difference in service types supported is huge.
@Breffni-Potter said:
I'm not targeting the average PC world user. I'm trying to aim elsewhere.
What you are targeting is not relevant. The key thing is simply that the word "residential" exists at all. This means you are not a B2B focused provider. I would much prefer to only hire firms that are focuse don business support because based on that being all they do, I will have a much higher chance of getting quality service.
This does not mean that your company cannot provide quality service to both markets. But you will find yourself being ignored for other choices simply because of it.
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I'd take this company as en example http://www.computer-rescue.ca/
They provide Home support. Yet they are on spiceworks and ask so many simple questions about adding new DCs, DNS configuration etc there.
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@Breffni-Potter, how are you planning on getting clients? (I don't have any advice, I'm just nosey!)
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@JaredBusch said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Is there a business decision behind that? Surely that's the same as saying "Oh I won't use that level of internet provider, I want this provider" and pay £££ for a connection.
I would not avoid an IT firm that supports home users just for that reason, but I would be skeptical of their ability to support my business.
The difference in service types supported is huge.
@Breffni-Potter said:
I'm not targeting the average PC world user. I'm trying to aim elsewhere.
What you are targeting is not relevant. The key thing is simply that the word "residential" exists at all. This means you are not a B2B focused provider. I would much prefer to only hire firms that are focuse don business support because based on that being all they do, I will have a much higher chance of getting quality service.
This does not mean that your company cannot provide quality service to both markets. But you will find yourself being ignored for other choices simply because of it.
I agree here. Adding residential as an option really changes how people see you (IMHO.) It's okay to cover residential and just not put it out there as advertising. NTG's policy, for example, is we will do residential but you have to treat it like a business (business billing, business rates, business account.) Only makes sense if you are talking about a remote residential office that is part of a corporate contract - when needed we don't want to not offer it, but we don't want home users thinking that they can get service from us.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@Breffni-Potter, how are you planning on getting clients? (I don't have any advice, I'm just nosey!)
Always a point of curiosity for me too.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
I'd take this company as en example http://www.computer-rescue.ca/
They provide Home support. Yet they are on spiceworks and ask so many simple questions about adding new DCs, DNS configuration etc there.
No comment as to their competence, when you have a look at my profile do you get that same impression?
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Good luck with it! That's a tough row to hoe
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Carnival-Boy said:
@Breffni-Potter, how are you planning on getting clients? (I don't have any advice, I'm just nosey!)
Always a point of curiosity for me too.
Yep, hardest thing for any new business.
I already have a confirmed set of clients, My personal reputation for delivering a great service, with professionalism in very high pressure situations is high. They know who I am and what I can deliver.
As for residential, I have a paticular profile of customer in mind, These are very much home office based clients, who are used to business level service and they will be paying business rates.
On a borrowed laptop so can't write an essay but does that help clarify?
