Unsolved NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021
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@travisdh1 said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@dashrender said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@travisdh1 said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@notverypunny said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@travisdh1 said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@notverypunny said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Any vendors people want to recommend or warn off with regards to endpoint and server protection? We're shopping options to replace our current NG solution. Currently on a call and it's kinda meh.... I'm not a fan of sales in any context and this seems to be lots of sizzle and not a lot of steak (or bacon... substitute your delicious protein of choice)
What is NG?
NG = Next Generation.... in the AV or Enpoint Protection space it's vendor-speak for non-signature based, usually with other functions and integrations
Ah, I was trying to think of a specific product and recoiling because the only thing that came to mind was a Norton product of some sort!
Also a load of marketing, non signature has been a thing for years now, if not a decade.
Frankly, none of them do any better job than the one included with your OS (which ever OS that happens to be). The only reason for most 3rd party software today is to get a single management console for a large number of computers/servers.
This is why I want to use MS's Defender, but DAMN they want a bloody fortune... I pay like $25/u/y right now... Defender is like $10/u/m or $120/u/y WAY more expensive... but, I have a baseline AV, perhaps it's just not something I can compare. My current AV vendor of course has something more akin price wise to Defender, Until recently the spend would have been a no go...
Yeah, to get the centrally managed console with Defender is crazy expensive compared to the competition.
And mostly useless anyway. Another bit of marketing, mostly.
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@scottalanmiller said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
If you spend a single minute or a single dollar looking at another solution, you are losing money while increasing your risk.
A lot of companies need the central management and reporting aspects, which means you'll be paying money for a good solution. While Defender does those, it begins to cost. At that point, there are some other worthy competitors that may be a better fit depending on environment. Such example would be Crowdstrike.
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Seriously, it is a shame to know about this, I use it for some computers with Windows and Android and iOS for my family.
Is there an option to protect Android and iOS devices or is it unnecessary?
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@scottalanmiller
Does this mean that the AV-Test and AV-Comparative information are part of the scam? -
One of the issues that we're hitting with a couple of vendors is that they don't want to do a PoC or allow us to trial / test the solution without a commitment. To throw another factor into the mix is that this has to play nice with non-persistent VDI. Since we're a VDI shop we have to protect the VD instances as well as the Windows PCs being used to access the VD. There seems to be a mix of user vs device licensing, but user licensing is generally our preference since it typically runs cheaper and is easier to manage.
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@dagors said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@scottalanmiller
Does this mean that the AV-Test and AV-Comparative information are part of the scam?For sure, those places make their money promoting products.
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@dagors said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Seriously, it is a shame to know about this, I use it for some computers with Windows and Android and iOS for my family.
Is there an option to protect Android and iOS devices or is it unnecessary?
Ah, I should be more clear. AV on Windows is a scam. On macOS, Android, and iOS... maybe it makes sense. There is no built in AV.
In many cases, it is actually unnecessary. Android and iOS especially with care you don't install things often or casually. They are awfully secure. But if you installing random things or testing products, an AV might make sense.
macOS is like Windows. If you are exposing it to things, some AV is probably a good idea. That said, I don't use AV on macOS or Linux, most people do not. It's not considered necessary and I install extremely few things and almost always from the managed store.
Windows ecosystem makes AV far more important because of the standards of how software is obtained.
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@obsolesce said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@scottalanmiller said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
If you spend a single minute or a single dollar looking at another solution, you are losing money while increasing your risk.
A lot of companies need the central management and reporting aspects, which means you'll be paying money for a good solution. While Defender does those, it begins to cost. At that point, there are some other worthy competitors that may be a better fit depending on environment. Such example would be Crowdstrike.
"Need" is rarely true. "Blindly demand for no reason" is all we normally see.
And for most of those, we've found that reporting solutions and tools that simply report on stock (free) Defender meet the needs.
While plausible, I've never found an organization that actually had a use for the centralized console. They like it because it looks good and makes them feel good. But it was always an emotional thing, not a business one.
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@dagors said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Seriously, it is a shame to know about this
There are historical reasons why these companies are around. And while initially it feels awful, quickly it becomes "oh wait, this is great for the future overall" and you start to feel good about it.
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@scottalanmiller
Thanks for the explanation! -
@dagors said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@scottalanmiller
Thanks for the explanation!No problem!
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@obsolesce said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@notverypunny said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Any vendors people want to recommend or warn off with regards to endpoint and server protection? We're shopping options to replace our current NG solution. Currently on a call and it's kinda meh.... I'm not a fan of sales in any context and this seems to be lots of sizzle and not a lot of steak (or bacon... substitute your delicious protein of choice)
Crowdstrike has worked well in a few large places I've seen. It's great cross platform.
That's what we just moved to.
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@scottalanmiller Like what? I am confused, I have worked with many AV and Bitdefender has been one of the less problematics AV I have worked with. Most of the time Bitdefender doesn't allow something it is purely a setting that blocks access to File shares or local folders but once allowed it works same with Windows Defender has the same feature and can be annoying. Centralized management is not about knowing the status of the agents, it is also the way to manage all the settings and policies from one place instead of doing manual work on each computer (Windows Defender) to apply the changes.
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@dbeato same never had issues with most AV.
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@dbeato said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Like what? I am confused, I have worked with many AV and Bitdefender has been one of the less problematics AV I have worked with.
That's a low bar. You should really have like... zero problems. With Bitdefender we have issues with nearly everything. With management tools, other security tools (like Defender), with remote access, with line of business applications, with general OS performance. You name it.
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@dbeato said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Most of the time Bitdefender doesn't allow something it is purely a setting that blocks access to File shares or local folders but once allowed it works same with Windows Defender has the same feature and can be annoying.
Right. That's a major problem unless you are billing by the hour, then creating these issues is a good thing for the pocket book. Having to log in and fix applications not working because we installed an unnecessary application to create the problem in the first place is a great way to make money quickly but isn't a good way to do IT. Blocking standard applications and requiring a human to log in (which is also often blocked by the AV) instead of "just working" like Defender does, is a HUGE problem.
If I was a business owner and found a company doing this to us, I'd be considering legal action. Not just putting us at risk, but then billing to fix the problem that they created. All while disabling a better AV that was already there and doesn't (typically) have these problems!
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@dbeato said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Centralized management is not about knowing the status of the agents, it is also the way to manage all the settings and policies from one place instead of doing manual work on each computer (Windows Defender) to apply the changes.
Sure, but what settings and policies do you need? Keep the computer safe, stop monkeying about with policies. I truly believe this entire policy market is a scam. All these unnecessary settings, that put customers at risk, to justify paying for a centralized system.
Skip it all. Problem solved. Centralized reporting of status so that you know things are running and up to date: great. But with Defender, that's free. All the rest, I absolutely, 100% think it's BS that people are trying to charge for that.
Don't get me wrong, I know why it is a good market of easy money and that it is super easy to get customers to request it. But as a CIO, my job is always to educate my customers that this is not in their interest and it is all "sounds good" mombo jumbo that is hard to refute, but in practice is not in any way done for their benefit.
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@scottalanmiller said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@dbeato said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
Centralized management is not about knowing the status of the agents, it is also the way to manage all the settings and policies from one place instead of doing manual work on each computer (Windows Defender) to apply the changes.
Sure, but what settings and policies do you need? Keep the computer safe, stop monkeying about with policies. I truly believe this entire policy market is a scam. All these unnecessary settings, that put customers at risk, to justify paying for a centralized system.
Skip it all. Problem solved. Centralized reporting of status so that you know things are running and up to date: great. But with Defender, that's free. All the rest, I absolutely, 100% think it's BS that people are trying to charge for that.
Don't get me wrong, I know why it is a good market of easy money and that it is super easy to get customers to request it. But as a CIO, my job is always to educate my customers that this is not in their interest and it is all "sounds good" mombo jumbo that is hard to refute, but in practice is not in any way done for their benefit.
I'm curious, how do you handle centralized reporting with Defender? That's still the 1 missing piece most places I deal with want, and I don't know of a way to do it with Defender itself.
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@travisdh1 said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
I'm curious, how do you handle centralized reporting with Defender? That's still the 1 missing piece most places I deal with want, and I don't know of a way to do it with Defender itself.
Reporting on it being up to date and running? Both MeshCentral and TacticalRMM report on that. So do lots of other tools.
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@scottalanmiller said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
@travisdh1 said in NG AV / Endpoint Protection in 2021:
I'm curious, how do you handle centralized reporting with Defender? That's still the 1 missing piece most places I deal with want, and I don't know of a way to do it with Defender itself.
Reporting on it being up to date and running? Both MeshCentral and TacticalRMM report on that. So do lots of other tools.
Can you give a screenshot of this? I just can't conceptualize how these tools can give you a report on running, updates, number of findings, what the findings are, etc.
