LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn
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@JaredBusch said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@JaredBusch said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
broken promises
Bullshit.
Well I will certainly not defend LMI because they’re a crap ass company, last pass has never promised full functionality on all devices for free. That they might not have actually enforced it maybe true. There is no broken promise
Yeah This is what I was thinking too.
the mobile version at first was pay only... I don't know when they moved it to free, but I was already a paying customer at that point... so never really noticed.Of course I have noticed the increase to $3/m... damn... when O365 is $5 on the bottom end.. the value prop seems so different.
Correct, that’s an entirely different issue and the reason why I started looking to move solutions last year but that’s not the point of that stupid ass article the Scott linked.
According to something else I heard - LP was spending more money supporting free users than paid ones. I can understand them not wanting an upside down business.
The article specifically highlights several pay only solutions, then wraps with a few free options.
I do appreciate that the author points that that one SHOULD pay for a password manager, we want them to succeed, we want them to keep security up and updated, we want them to improve the product. it's not like they can sell advertising, God - I hope no one tries that shit!
Bitwarden might be the main thing to go to if you just simply can't afford $3/m.
I've been paying since 2012, I'll keep paying.
Now the question for me personally is - do I start teaching people about Bitwarden with their listed "Free Forever"
notice - or consider that pie in the sky considering that LMI had a free forever, which they reneged on. -
If I'm going to be paying for a password manager, I may as well pay for LP since it has all the features and good to haves that we need. All the others seem to have at least one catch to them, but otherwise no reason for me to pay for them over LP.
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@Obsolesce said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
If I'm going to be paying for a password manager, I may as well pay for LP since it has all the features and good to haves that we need. All the others seem to have at least one catch to them, but otherwise no reason for me to pay for them over LP.
This is exactly how I felt, even more so after reading the article Scott posted.
Of course, this is always subject to LMI/LP jacking their prices up even more.
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@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
According to something else I heard - LP was spending more money supporting free users than paid ones. I can understand them not wanting an upside down business.
That's not upside down, that's a loss leader. Very different things. It's quite normal for marketing to cost more than support in a business.
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@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
According to something else I heard - LP was spending more money supporting free users than paid ones. I can understand them not wanting an upside down business.
That's not upside down, that's a loss leader. Very different things. It's quite normal for marketing to cost more than support in a business.
Yup, if there's a free version to a paid product, marketing is exactly what it is.
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from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
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@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never been profitable. -
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
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@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
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@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still.
Amazon took 8 years before they started using black ink.
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@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Yeah, it's not healthy. Probably why the markets need to crash from time to time.
That's what I like about Zoho. They're are bootstrapped with no venture capitalism backing and not public. And they turn a healthy profit every year. 10K+ employees, 0.5 Billion in revenue. 50+ Billion business users.
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@JasGot said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still.
Amazon took 8 years before they started using black ink.
While true, Amazon was well known to be purposely investing more money than they made in infrastructure to build their business. They could have started making profits years earlier if they wanted, but they purposely kept loosing money until they were ready. Totally different than Uber, which has no potential to make any money until driverless cars are available.
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@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
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@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
For Uber, the app cost is trivial. Even if it is $50m USD a year, that's nothing in their revenue. Their costs are around payroll, payment processing, legal teams, marketing, market creation, insurance, etc.
Think about trying to make Uber... it might cost you $100m USD just to convince a single city to let you use your product there. The BIG money is in getting the laws and regulations changed to let you exist. The actual app and driving of the cars is background noise to them.
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@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
For Uber, the app cost is trivial. Even if it is $50m USD a year, that's nothing in their revenue. Their costs are around payroll, payment processing, legal teams, marketing, market creation, insurance, etc.
Think about trying to make Uber... it might cost you $100m USD just to convince a single city to let you use your product there. The BIG money is in getting the laws and regulations changed to let you exist. The actual app and driving of the cars is background noise to them.
oh yeah - I keep forgetting about the requirement to buy off cities, etc to allow the thing to happen... good point.
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@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
For Uber, the app cost is trivial. Even if it is $50m USD a year, that's nothing in their revenue. Their costs are around payroll, payment processing, legal teams, marketing, market creation, insurance, etc.
Think about trying to make Uber... it might cost you $100m USD just to convince a single city to let you use your product there. The BIG money is in getting the laws and regulations changed to let you exist. The actual app and driving of the cars is background noise to them.
oh yeah - I keep forgetting about the requirement to buy off cities, etc to allow the thing to happen... good point.
And they keep having to enter and leave markets. All that startup cost and advertising and loss leaders, then they limp along for a year or two, then the city decides to make a competing service and kick them out once Uber paid to develop the market. It's rough.
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@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
For Uber, the app cost is trivial. Even if it is $50m USD a year, that's nothing in their revenue. Their costs are around payroll, payment processing, legal teams, marketing, market creation, insurance, etc.
Think about trying to make Uber... it might cost you $100m USD just to convince a single city to let you use your product there. The BIG money is in getting the laws and regulations changed to let you exist. The actual app and driving of the cars is background noise to them.
oh yeah - I keep forgetting about the requirement to buy off cities, etc to allow the thing to happen... good point.
And they keep having to enter and leave markets. All that startup cost and advertising and loss leaders, then they limp along for a year or two, then the city decides to make a competing service and kick them out once Uber paid to develop the market. It's rough.
I don't feel this is something cities should be able to do... if you can legally have the business - they they shouldn't be able to stop you....
the whole taxi aspect - selling medallions, - what a raquet!
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@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
For Uber, the app cost is trivial. Even if it is $50m USD a year, that's nothing in their revenue. Their costs are around payroll, payment processing, legal teams, marketing, market creation, insurance, etc.
Think about trying to make Uber... it might cost you $100m USD just to convince a single city to let you use your product there. The BIG money is in getting the laws and regulations changed to let you exist. The actual app and driving of the cars is background noise to them.
oh yeah - I keep forgetting about the requirement to buy off cities, etc to allow the thing to happen... good point.
And they keep having to enter and leave markets. All that startup cost and advertising and loss leaders, then they limp along for a year or two, then the city decides to make a competing service and kick them out once Uber paid to develop the market. It's rough.
I don't feel this is something cities should be able to do... if you can legally have the business - they they shouldn't be able to stop you....
the whole taxi aspect - selling medallions, - what a raquet!
That's the thing, they stop you by changing if it is legal for you to have a business. That's the problem with government, they change "what is legal" whenever they want.
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@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@scottalanmiller said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@travisdh1 said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Pete-S said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
@Dashrender said in LastPass Goes As Predicted Like LogMeIn:
from the sounds of it - the marketing wasn't paying off, at least not in their opinion.
They probably looking at the conversion rate from free to paying customer.
If 99% of all free users are happy with the free version then they need to remove features from the free version or remove it altogether. Or adjust their business model.
The marketing is of no value if it's successful, but only ever generates "customers" using the free version.
A lot of SaaS companies are run on venture capitalist money though and generates no profit, only losses. But that can never go on forever. But some have deep pockets. I think it took Spotify 10 years to have their first quarter that was not in the red. On a yearly basis they still never have been profitable.Yeah that kind of crap is some thing I simply do not understand why the investors continue to pour more money on that fire. Just see that money burn
Spotify has nothing on Uber. Uber looses money on every ride still. The business model was setup to take advantage of driverless vehicles, and that's taking longer than they expected to happen. In the meantime, they keep getting the funding to continue operating.
Now this is somethign I also don't understand... Are we assuming the cost of the drivers AND administrator/IT staff for the company cost more than the app brings in? that just seems like a crazy idea.. but yet I know it must be true... I wonder what make their costs SOOOO expensive? is there that much need to continue updating the app, are the servers needed to keep the platform running THAT expensive?
For Uber, the app cost is trivial. Even if it is $50m USD a year, that's nothing in their revenue. Their costs are around payroll, payment processing, legal teams, marketing, market creation, insurance, etc.
Think about trying to make Uber... it might cost you $100m USD just to convince a single city to let you use your product there. The BIG money is in getting the laws and regulations changed to let you exist. The actual app and driving of the cars is background noise to them.
oh yeah - I keep forgetting about the requirement to buy off cities, etc to allow the thing to happen... good point.
And they keep having to enter and leave markets. All that startup cost and advertising and loss leaders, then they limp along for a year or two, then the city decides to make a competing service and kick them out once Uber paid to develop the market. It's rough.
I don't feel this is something cities should be able to do... if you can legally have the business - they they shouldn't be able to stop you....
the whole taxi aspect - selling medallions, - what a raquet!
That's the thing, they stop you by changing if it is legal for you to have a business. That's the problem with government, they change "what is legal" whenever they want.
I want to down vote this because of the gov't, not because of your post
