Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals
-
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
I don't believe that you actually think this way. If you did all of the products you are selling would be open source or you would just be using the existing open source things.
- I sell no products.
- I'm confused by this talk of products at all as none of it is related to the topic. It's not the office discussion that has sidetracked things, it's the entire talk of any products at all. The post was about IT, not software or hardware.
You own Vestastic and SodiumSuite?
I do. Neither is software nor for sale.
Man you are splitting hairs now. You just spent how many posts comparing office365 which is a service to LibreOffice which is software.
-
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
I don't believe that you actually think this way. If you did all of the products you are selling would be open source or you would just be using the existing open source things.
- I sell no products.
- I'm confused by this talk of products at all as none of it is related to the topic. It's not the office discussion that has sidetracked things, it's the entire talk of any products at all. The post was about IT, not software or hardware.
You own Vestastic and SodiumSuite?
Services are quite different than software. When you buy services, it is human skills and support and resources that you get. Software is code. Software is commonly a part of a service offering, but products like software and hardware are very different than services that may or may not use software and hardware behind the scenes.
But when you buy a service, you don't "own something" at the end. You "get something done".
If you buy software, there's no guarantee that it's been run. It can just sit in a box and never "exist" in a running state. When you buy a service, there is no guarantee that there is software, only an availability of a result.
Like the difference between hiring a maid, or buying a broom. Related, but very different.
-
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
I don't believe that you actually think this way. If you did all of the products you are selling would be open source or you would just be using the existing open source things.
- I sell no products.
- I'm confused by this talk of products at all as none of it is related to the topic. It's not the office discussion that has sidetracked things, it's the entire talk of any products at all. The post was about IT, not software or hardware.
You own Vestastic and SodiumSuite?
I do. Neither is software nor for sale.
Man you are splitting hairs now. You just spent how many posts comparing office365 which is a service to LibreOffice which is software.
Office 365 is a licensing model for buying software that you download, install, and run yourself. You get software. It's a common misconception that Office 365 is a service, but it's primarily a licensing option for software. Within the O365 licensing pool there are services, but Office isn't one of them. That's still delivered as software that you install and run. Unless you mean just the hosted version, which is a slightly different product, in which case LO offers that too, but I discussed neither of those. Only the software.
-
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
Man you are splitting hairs now.
Anything but. I feel like you are missing, no matter how many times I point it out, that the entire point of the thread cannot be related to products, as it is 100% a topic about IT as a profession, not products that people in the IT profession may or may not buy.
It's not "why do people buy IT products", it's "when do we consider something buying rather than doing when it's IT".
There are two insanely large misses being made constantly...
First, that it's about products when even the title says IT.
Second, that one is bad and the other good. When the discussion is about how do we identify one from the other as both are obviously necessary.
-
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@scottalanmiller said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
I don't believe that you actually think this way. If you did all of the products you are selling would be open source or you would just be using the existing open source things.
- I sell no products.
- I'm confused by this talk of products at all as none of it is related to the topic. It's not the office discussion that has sidetracked things, it's the entire talk of any products at all. The post was about IT, not software or hardware.
You own Vestastic and SodiumSuite?
I do. Neither is software nor for sale.
Man you are splitting hairs now. You just spent how many posts comparing office365 which is a service to LibreOffice which is software.
Office 365 is a licensing model for buying software that you download, install, and run yourself. You get software. It's a common misconception that Office 365 is a service, but it's primarily a licensing option for software. Within the O365 licensing pool there are services, but Office isn't one of them. That's still delivered as software that you install and run. Unless you mean just the hosted version, which is a slightly different product, in which case LO offers that too, but I discussed neither of those. Only the software.
False. You don't need to download anything. It's 100% a service that also let's you have local copies of the products.
-
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
False. You don't need to download anything. It's 100% a service that also let's you have local copies of the products.
Talk about splitting hairs. The real MS Office product requires a download. And it requires that you install it to use it. There's no service offering with the real MS Office product.
And all of this I already pointed out in earlier posts, that both MSO and LO have hosted, online "service" offerings of lesser versions that I wasn't including because they are different.
-
Forked so that you guys can have your discussion our of nowhere about a perceived resentment to closed source solutions based, I presume, on the fact that some of us don't like one or two pieces of software that happens to be closed rather than on anything stated. The original topic was about IT professionals vs. people who hire IT professionals and don't do any IT themselves, but somehow this thread on software got added to it. So it's forked so now you can talk about this perceived resentment.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
Vetastic - $195 a month for a hosted service. When OpenVPMS is open source and free.
This is a weird comparison because...
- One is a service, not software.
- This thread isn't about software.
So it's neither applicable to the topic, nor a comparison on its own.
You can purchase a local appliance of the vet service to run at your business location. Physical appliances are products not services. And I still do not believe that there is a difference between offering a service and using an open source product.
I can either run Rocketchat locally as a product or use their service. You're making distinctions here to justify your actions on selling things with one hand for high prices and then the other saying free are better.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
Forked so that you guys can have your discussion our of nowhere about a perceived resentment to closed source solutions based, I presume, on the fact that some of us don't like one or two pieces of software that happens to be closed rather than on anything stated. The original topic was about IT professionals vs. people who hire IT professionals and don't do any IT themselves, but somehow this thread on software got added to it. So it's forked so now you can talk about this perceived resentment.
The original post was about IT buying vs doing. Purchasing software to ease IT burden is 100% related to that. Not sure why you keep saying this.
-
@IRJ said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
I'm not sure I understand the resentment on mangolassi of purchasing software.
I think it's hard to understand primarily because it doesn't exist. I'm not aware of anyone here, regardless of what claims people make about each other, that feels this way nor have I ever met someone around here who does (Stallman doesn't hang out here.)
I'm not sure if it's the lack of fanboi reaction to closed source that creates a perception of hating it? Or that some of us find FOSS to be far more viable than closed source fans would want to promote.. I have no idea.
But I can tell you, for certain, that the "all open source is evil" mantra remains and is repeated a lot and if anyone dares to suggest that FOSS licensing is advantages (licensing, not products) the diatribes about "all closed source software" and other "what does that have to do with what is said" responses are crazy, and totally assured.
You perceive that this community is anti-closed source software. I think what you're actually seeing is simply a community that considers both based on their merits and compared to the industry at large, that comes across as anti-CS because so many CS products are obviously (and Ballman has made this clear) relying on politicizing and FUD to seem viable.
And many people confuse Microsoft with closed source. It's often seen if someone isn't a MIcrosoft fan, that therefore it is the license that people don't like when, in reality, I think we all know it's primarily the product.
-
@stacksofplates said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
Forked so that you guys can have your discussion our of nowhere about a perceived resentment to closed source solutions based, I presume, on the fact that some of us don't like one or two pieces of software that happens to be closed rather than on anything stated. The original topic was about IT professionals vs. people who hire IT professionals and don't do any IT themselves, but somehow this thread on software got added to it. So it's forked so now you can talk about this perceived resentment.
The original post was about IT buying vs doing. Purchasing software to ease IT burden is 100% related to that. Not sure why you keep saying this.
Because that's not what is being discussed. It's about having "someone else" make the IT decisions, including the decisions to buy software. Software might ease IT burden, or make it worse. It software isn't "doing IT". And it's buying "IT", not "IT tools" being discussed.
IT Tools are not IT. If you "hire a plumber" you would never claim that "buying a plunger" was "buying a plumber". Clearly one is a tool that the other might use. But when asked when you are a plumber versus someone who hires plumbers, no would would think that "buying a plunger" counted as either.
And the topic wasn't then about the tools that could be bought, but even a total step away from that about open source vs. closed source tools, not tools versus people. So two entire steps unrelated to the topic.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
So installation is not a feature, they're both pretty much the same.
It's a huge feature. That it is built into most OSes, and that we can install with just a command line from Windows (Chocolatey), and in all OSes get auto-updates that "just work"... it's a whopping feature.
That you even have to go somewhere to get MS Office is more work than installing LibreOffice. That's big IT time, over and over again to deal with.
You can install most versions of MS Office with Chocolatey now. Found it the other day and rejoiced that I no longer have to deal with ODT.
-
@travisdh1 said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
So installation is not a feature, they're both pretty much the same.
It's a huge feature. That it is built into most OSes, and that we can install with just a command line from Windows (Chocolatey), and in all OSes get auto-updates that "just work"... it's a whopping feature.
That you even have to go somewhere to get MS Office is more work than installing LibreOffice. That's big IT time, over and over again to deal with.
You can install most versions of MS Office with Chocolatey now. Found it the other day and rejoiced that I no longer have to deal with ODT.
WHAT?!?!?
How, tell me more. What the heck.
-
@travisdh1 said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
So installation is not a feature, they're both pretty much the same.
It's a huge feature. That it is built into most OSes, and that we can install with just a command line from Windows (Chocolatey), and in all OSes get auto-updates that "just work"... it's a whopping feature.
That you even have to go somewhere to get MS Office is more work than installing LibreOffice. That's big IT time, over and over again to deal with.
You can install most versions of MS Office with Chocolatey now. Found it the other day and rejoiced that I no longer have to deal with ODT.
Make a thread with instructions!
-
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@travisdh1 said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@stacksofplates said in When Does It Stop Even Being IT: Buyers vs Doers:
So installation is not a feature, they're both pretty much the same.
It's a huge feature. That it is built into most OSes, and that we can install with just a command line from Windows (Chocolatey), and in all OSes get auto-updates that "just work"... it's a whopping feature.
That you even have to go somewhere to get MS Office is more work than installing LibreOffice. That's big IT time, over and over again to deal with.
You can install most versions of MS Office with Chocolatey now. Found it the other day and rejoiced that I no longer have to deal with ODT.
Make a thread with instructions!
You are slightly less excited than I was, lol.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@stacksofplates said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
@scottalanmiller said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
Forked so that you guys can have your discussion our of nowhere about a perceived resentment to closed source solutions based, I presume, on the fact that some of us don't like one or two pieces of software that happens to be closed rather than on anything stated. The original topic was about IT professionals vs. people who hire IT professionals and don't do any IT themselves, but somehow this thread on software got added to it. So it's forked so now you can talk about this perceived resentment.
The original post was about IT buying vs doing. Purchasing software to ease IT burden is 100% related to that. Not sure why you keep saying this.
Because that's not what is being discussed. It's about having "someone else" make the IT decisions, including the decisions to buy software. Software might ease IT burden, or make it worse. It software isn't "doing IT". And it's buying "IT", not "IT tools" being discussed.
It's directly related because you don't have to be an IT professional to purchase O365 and understand it provides many advantages like email, OneDrive, messaging, office suite, etc all in one package. You will still need to buy IT labor to run it, but alot less labor than separate custom solutions and a somewhat predictable monthly bill for service and labor.
Also Office 365 is more widely supported by other companies providing IT. Which is huge if relationships ever go sour.
-
@IRJ said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
It's directly related because you don't have to be an IT professional to purchase O365
How is O365 IT? It's a product or service, but it's not IT. IT is the overseeing of business infrastructure. I covered this, a bit already, buying a product, like a plunger, and hiring a plumber are two different things. Entirely.
The thread was solely about IT, not IT products. The decision to buy O365, the planning around it can be done blindly, or with IT evaluating it. The question isn't about O365, but the decision process around deciding on it.
I think my point is being made for me. You can see that what is the core function of IT... the designing of the infrastructure of business, the evaluation of needs, the alignment of tech to the business' goals... is so foreign that we can't even discuss it without turning our attention to "products" rather than the act of doing the thing IT is there to do.
-
@IRJ said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
Also Office 365 is more widely supported by other companies providing IT. Which is huge if relationships ever go sour.
This is related to the evaluation process, which is great, but the original question was about "doing the evaluation" or "buying the evaluation."
Actually, I like how that is phrased. I'm going to copy that over there.
-
@IRJ said in Resentment to Purchasing Software - Split From Unrelated Topic on IT Professionals:
You will still need to buy IT labor to run it, but alot less labor than separate custom solutions and a somewhat predictable monthly bill for service and labor.
Sure, that later stage of the IT. But it takes way more IT skill and experience to evaluate products, services, approaches, alignment with needs, etc. than to operate a product. Especially one like O365 where there is loads of documentation and often SaaS behind the scenes doing a lot of the hard stuff.
To properly compare and think about costs, long term labor, lock in, formats, end user support, and all of the kinds of things that we have discussed... all of that should be stuff being considered before choices are made. And honestly, understanding it and putting it all together is much, much harder than logging into O365 and provisioning some users. That why one piece is a senior IT role and the other is often a helpdesk one (assuming helpdesk is roughly entry level in the org.)
This is what my original thread was about. Not outsourcing products or buying products. But rather making the decision of what to buy and/or do vs buying the decision of what to them buy and/or do.
-
No resentment from me when it comes to purchasing software, I have more of resentment for those who buys or suckered into expensive or cheap ass software.
I'll provide FOSS as an option if it makes sence.
