Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
If you are trying to manage thousands of computers via ScreenConnect, you can afford to plan you business on running a single Windows Server instance to host it. Would it be cheaper (slightly) to run it on Linux? Sure. But that does not change the fact that if you are at that scale, you should easily be able to handle a Server license.
The license cost scales up, too, though. What companies "can handle" is never a good approach to what "is a good decision" though. Companies get big and successful by considering what is a good decision, not spending to their limits just because they can.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
It's different if someone decides to violate the MS EULA than for a company to openly state that you should violate it.
You been sucking Scott's air too long.
It's basic logic. Using "violate a license" to sell something isn't a legal sales tactic.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
This is a strawman argument IMO. It is the customer's responsibility to use a properly licensed Windows Server. The software can run on multiple versions of Windows including workstation editions. You also could in "theory" use it on a workstation if you had to do so for testing.
It's different if someone decides to violate the MS EULA than for a company to openly state that you should violate it.
And to use that recommendation as a basis as their price comparison. That's false marketing and there are laws about that, too.
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@JaredBusch said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Additionally, it is not a law being broken. It is a license agreement being violated. Licensing agreements can be, but are not always, subject to contract law and/or intellectual property laws.
Even if it's not a criminal act, civil laws are still laws and you can be punished for violating them. Are you suggesting that Microsoft forgot to make it enforceable?
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I don't think it is common knowledge among vendors what the MS EULA allows or not. The EULA states what is allowed and everything else is forbidden. But I've seen vendors even sell complete turnkey solutions with hardware and with Windows installed and where the usage is clearly not allowed and would have required a Windows Server license.
Of course this is only a problem with vendors that haven't matured enough to complete leave Windows behind unless forced otherwise.
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@Pete-S said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
I don't think it is common knowledge among vendors what the MS EULA allows or not. The EULA states what is allowed and everything else is forbidden. But I've seen vendors even sell complete turnkey solutions with hardware and with Windows installed and where the usage is clearly not allowed and would have required a Windows Server license.
I think they know but don't care. Who's left holding the bag? The person running Windows 10 as a server is responsible not the vendor.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
"Windows
Note: The server installation requires .NET 4.7.1 and above.
Windows 7
Windows 8.1
Windows 10
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012 / 2012 R2
Windows Server 2016
Windows Server 2019"So can you admit your company suggests breaking the law to deploy your software?
Allen Crist 09:09 AM
No we admit that we interpret the EULA different than you.
Tony Seunbane 09:10 AM
And different from how Microsoft interprets it? I have asked Microsoft Licensing Desk Employees and they stated exactly what I have. Keep in mind these are Microsoft employees that specialize in licensing.
Allen Crist 09:11 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I can only tell you what our PM stance on this is.Yep, this is exactly what my HVAC company said when we got a new system last year - Their software acts as a server, therefore must legally be installed on Windows Server, not Windows desktop OS... but the vendor "checked it out" and claims it's legal.
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
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@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
"Windows
Note: The server installation requires .NET 4.7.1 and above.
Windows 7
Windows 8.1
Windows 10
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012 / 2012 R2
Windows Server 2016
Windows Server 2019"So can you admit your company suggests breaking the law to deploy your software?
Allen Crist 09:09 AM
No we admit that we interpret the EULA different than you.
Tony Seunbane 09:10 AM
And different from how Microsoft interprets it? I have asked Microsoft Licensing Desk Employees and they stated exactly what I have. Keep in mind these are Microsoft employees that specialize in licensing.
Allen Crist 09:11 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I can only tell you what our PM stance on this is.Yep, this is exactly what my HVAC company said when we got a new system last year - Their software acts as a server, therefore must legally be installed on Windows Server, not Windows desktop OS... but the vendor "checked it out" and claims it's legal.
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
You just contradicted yourself. If the vendor "checked it out" they would know that using a desktop operating system is against the EULA, it's not specifically illegal (from congress).
They checked out to see if it works, they care not about the potential damages they're putting you on the hook for.
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@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
"Windows
Note: The server installation requires .NET 4.7.1 and above.
Windows 7
Windows 8.1
Windows 10
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2012 / 2012 R2
Windows Server 2016
Windows Server 2019"So can you admit your company suggests breaking the law to deploy your software?
Allen Crist 09:09 AM
No we admit that we interpret the EULA different than you.
Tony Seunbane 09:10 AM
And different from how Microsoft interprets it? I have asked Microsoft Licensing Desk Employees and they stated exactly what I have. Keep in mind these are Microsoft employees that specialize in licensing.
Allen Crist 09:11 AM
I understand where you are coming from. I can only tell you what our PM stance on this is.Yep, this is exactly what my HVAC company said when we got a new system last year - Their software acts as a server, therefore must legally be installed on Windows Server, not Windows desktop OS... but the vendor "checked it out" and claims it's legal.
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
Caught or not, there is a huge ethical issue. We can't control what they do, but can report them to Microsoft and we can still do the right thing. This company has been notified of the issue, that Microsoft Licensing Employees say you can't do it, the EULA is very clear but they say they interpret it a different way?
I mean, in what world does that work in?
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Legality refers to something passed into law (in our case by congress). EULA are simply an agreement between you and in this case Microsoft.
It gives MS an easy opportunity if it wanted to take you to court for damages or to make you stop doing something you've been doing.
The two are not at all related. You can use Windows 10 to act as a server, but you are not allowed to. It is also not illegal to use Windows 10 as a server (because congress isn't going to be passing any laws regarding this).
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@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Legality refers to something passed into law (in our case by congress). EULA are simply an agreement between you and in this case Microsoft.
It gives MS an easy opportunity if it wanted to take you to court for damages or to make you stop doing something you've been doing.
The two are not at all related. You can use Windows 10 to act as a server, but you are not allowed to. It is also not illegal to use Windows 10 as a server (because congress isn't going to be passing any laws regarding this).
There are laws that handle civil (tort) cases. Against the law doesn't mean a criminal act. It applies to civil (tort) actions as well.
So yes, it's illegal, but no 12 angry men in black pajamas won't be kicking in your door.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Legality refers to something passed into law (in our case by congress). EULA are simply an agreement between you and in this case Microsoft.
It gives MS an easy opportunity if it wanted to take you to court for damages or to make you stop doing something you've been doing.
The two are not at all related. You can use Windows 10 to act as a server, but you are not allowed to. It is also not illegal to use Windows 10 as a server (because congress isn't going to be passing any laws regarding this).
There are laws that handle civil (tort) cases. Against the law doesn't mean a criminal act. It applies to civil (tort) actions as well.
So yes, it's illegal, but no 12 angry men in black pajamas won't be kicking in your door.
Right, but tort law "is an act or omission that gives rise to injury or harm to another", not directly related the the EULA.
The tort in this case would possibly be that Connectwise is omitting/plainly stating "it's fine" even when the EULA doesn't actually allow you to use a desktop OS as a server.
To which their defense would likely be "they agreed to the EULA, not us, therefore they should know what is and isn't allowed"
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@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Legality refers to something passed into law (in our case by congress). EULA are simply an agreement between you and in this case Microsoft.
It gives MS an easy opportunity if it wanted to take you to court for damages or to make you stop doing something you've been doing.
The two are not at all related. You can use Windows 10 to act as a server, but you are not allowed to. It is also not illegal to use Windows 10 as a server (because congress isn't going to be passing any laws regarding this).
There are laws that handle civil (tort) cases. Against the law doesn't mean a criminal act. It applies to civil (tort) actions as well.
So yes, it's illegal, but no 12 angry men in black pajamas won't be kicking in your door.
Right, but tort law "is an act or omission that gives rise to injury or harm to another", not directly related the the EULA.
The tort in this case would possibly be that Connectwise is omitting/plainly stating "it's fine" even when the EULA doesn't actually allow you to use a desktop OS as a server.
To which their defense would likely be "they agreed to the EULA, not us, therefore they should know what is and isn't allowed"
It becomes a moot point because it's just speech. They aren't doing anything legally wrong (unless I am missing something). It's the person who takes their advice that is in trouble. The person who hits 'accept' to the EULA or the company they are acting as an agent for.
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
They aren't doing anything legally wrong
They are doing something wrong, in that they are leading you into tort against MS. I'm positive there is some sort of law on the books about this, but the onus is on the final user (you) to make sure you're compliant.
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@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
They aren't doing anything legally wrong
They are doing something wrong, in that they are leading you into tort against MS. I'm positive there is some sort of law on the books about this, but the onus is on the final user (you) to make sure you're compliant.
Yes, I agree. It's the end user left holding the bag (previous post). It would be tough going after them, however I'm sure Microsoft could make things difficult for them.
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@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
Exactly
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@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
Exactly
Just because you may never have any negative consequences of doing this, doesn't mean you should still do it. .
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@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@CCWTech said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
They aren't doing anything legally wrong
They are doing something wrong, in that they are leading you into tort against MS. I'm positive there is some sort of law on the books about this, but the onus is on the final user (you) to make sure you're compliant.
Yes, I agree. It's the end user left holding the bag (previous post). It would be tough going after them, however I'm sure Microsoft could make things difficult for them.
Who does Microsoft go after? all they said is you could do that. They arent actually violating anything. They aren't doing anything illegal themselves.
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@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
Exactly
Just because you may never have any negative consequences of doing this, doesn't mean you should still do it. .
So don't do it. Don't go around tattling on people to Microsoft either.
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@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@DustinB3403 said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@IRJ said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
@Dashrender said in Connectwise Control / Screenconnect recommends you break the law to run their software:
Short of an audit by Microsoft specifically where they look at use, nothing will likely ever happen.
Exactly
Just because you may never have any negative consequences of doing this, doesn't mean you should still do it. .
So don't do it. Don't go around tattling on people to Microsoft either.
I don't think anyone was tattling to Microsoft (at least not that I saw in this thread). But there are reward programs from Microsoft for just this sort of thing.
It could be in my interest to send that to MS just to be potentially rewarded. Not that I care in this argument, I neither have any evidence of this (besides this topic) nor am I motivated.
