Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...
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Alot of people say I don't need a certification because I already know the technology better than most who are certified. While that statement can certainly be true, the difference is proving you know something to your NEXT employer.
Sure you can prove your knowledge to your coworkers and company, but all that proving by seeing wears off when you get to the job market. If you have cert and knowledge you are golden ponyboy.
The more areas you can prove competency in thr more you're actually worth. Even expired certs from 10 years ago gave value because they will always prove you mastered the competency, and you will always be sme on the topic.
So cert up boys and girls,
Your Florida Man -
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
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@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
That's just a bad choice to stay in a strong economy. If you want put in 120% effort for your employer and get virtually zero out of it, that's on you and you alone.
It sounds like you're getting no training, planning time, or much of anything if you're working even 60 hours a week regularly.
There's no long term value here, you are just doing it as a favor for your employer who is either under staffing, under purchasing, and/or under paying for inexpensive talent across most of IT.
If you go into an interview and tell potential employer you worked up to 100 hour weeks it only sounds like a negative. Some people think it sounds like "this guy is willing to do anything for the company". In reality, it's "we can work this guy 60 hours and he will be happy with it".
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@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
I have been asking to draw out diagrams during interviews, but never pre interview before.
Doing it pre interview is like getting design architecture free as you giving a fully polished document over. It's also worse because you can do research to do it or ask for help.
Doing it during the interview shows real-time knowledge in the area, shows thinking rationale, and the ability to explain on the fly (which is needed for ang architecturely role). If you can explain it on a white board, you can easily pretty it up later.
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@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
huh - did you send them an bill? That does seem unreasonable - you produced work, you should be compensated... who's to say they aren't just using you for free architecture design?
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@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
huh - did you send them an bill? That does seem unreasonable - you produced work, you should be compensated... who's to say they aren't just using you for free architecture design?
Yes. Being able to explain it in an interview totally acceptable, but providing finished document before interview unacceptable
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Not really, I'm severely lacking in IT certs but I'm doing fine in Canada, Toronto nearly 100K salary range.
Just be walking portfolio, and have projects that you can demo and ace the interviews like I have a domain with a lot of my work publically available, and I tell them if they want to research me go to ML and read my posts
Also Im new to Toronto, been here for 4 months
And the vibe im getting is they want people with experiance and not certs, but hey i follow SAM ideas and concepts closely, so he said this many times when you have family or friend that has IT thing make project out of it and document it and mention it, get your hands dirty you know, but credit that. That said Im the type that go home and work on my shit and experiment with new tech nearly everyday or week at least. So YMMV
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@Emad-R said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Not really, I'm severely lacking in IT certs but I'm doing fine in Canada, Toronto nearly 100K salary range.
Just be walking portfolio, and have projects that you can demo and ace the interviews like I have a domain with a lot of my work publically available, and I tell them if they want to research me go to ML and read my posts
Also Im new to Toronto, been here for 4 months
And the vibe im getting is they want people with experiance and not certs, but hey i follow SAM ideas and concepts closely, so he said this many times when you have family or friend that has IT thing make project out of it and document it and mention it, get your hands dirty you know, but credit that. That said Im the type that go home and work on my shit and experiment with new tech nearly everyday or week at least. So YMMV
This works only if you can get past the HR goons. Which is the world that Scott and his level of experience gain him. His skill/knowledge is that that he's often being recruited, he's not sending in resume's looking for a job.. so I don't consider his experiences the norm.
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@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Emad-R said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Not really, I'm severely lacking in IT certs but I'm doing fine in Canada, Toronto nearly 100K salary range.
Just be walking portfolio, and have projects that you can demo and ace the interviews like I have a domain with a lot of my work publically available, and I tell them if they want to research me go to ML and read my posts
Also Im new to Toronto, been here for 4 months
And the vibe im getting is they want people with experiance and not certs, but hey i follow SAM ideas and concepts closely, so he said this many times when you have family or friend that has IT thing make project out of it and document it and mention it, get your hands dirty you know, but credit that. That said Im the type that go home and work on my shit and experiment with new tech nearly everyday or week at least. So YMMV
This works only if you can get past the HR goons. Which is the world that Scott and his level of experience gain him. His skill/knowledge is that that he's often being recruited, he's not sending in resume's looking for a job.. so I don't consider his experiences the norm.
True, next time be nice with the HR, try to find something in common and stop talking IT with them and befreind them on the phone ;), I am so informal in this phone interview stuff, first I start format till they say anything... anything outside of the scope and I take that and let the dragging stories game begin.
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@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
huh - did you send them an bill? That does seem unreasonable - you produced work, you should be compensated... who's to say they aren't just using you for free architecture design?
Yes. Being able to explain it in an interview totally acceptable, but providing finished document before interview unacceptable
I have a friend who is a trainer for a larger tech company. When she was interviewing for that job (or another one), she had to do a training presentation on something as part of her interview. I know it isn't quite the same, but still similar.
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@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Emad-R said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Not really, I'm severely lacking in IT certs but I'm doing fine in Canada, Toronto nearly 100K salary range.
Just be walking portfolio, and have projects that you can demo and ace the interviews like I have a domain with a lot of my work publically available, and I tell them if they want to research me go to ML and read my posts
Also Im new to Toronto, been here for 4 months
And the vibe im getting is they want people with experiance and not certs, but hey i follow SAM ideas and concepts closely, so he said this many times when you have family or friend that has IT thing make project out of it and document it and mention it, get your hands dirty you know, but credit that. That said Im the type that go home and work on my shit and experiment with new tech nearly everyday or week at least. So YMMV
This works only if you can get past the HR goons. Which is the world that Scott and his level of experience gain him. His skill/knowledge is that that he's often being recruited, he's not sending in resume's looking for a job.. so I don't consider his experiences the norm.
Being public and social with one's experience makes for a great CV (Curriculum Vitae).
Certs do help. Acknowledgements, like the Microsoft Most Valued Professional in my case, or VMware Guru, or Veeam Vanguard, and so on also show a distinct experiential knowledge over anyone else that may be applying for a position.
The better one gets at something, with the knowledge on full display, the more folks will indeed approach to ask for help. BTDT
As far as handing over knowledge prior to an interview? No way.
Without thinking about it, that happened once where the RFP made a specific request for details from us. I knew we were the initial contact and the only ones in the running a that time and did not clue in. Never again.
Details = Consulting = Pay Me. Period.
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@Emad-R said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Emad-R said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Not really, I'm severely lacking in IT certs but I'm doing fine in Canada, Toronto nearly 100K salary range.
Just be walking portfolio, and have projects that you can demo and ace the interviews like I have a domain with a lot of my work publically available, and I tell them if they want to research me go to ML and read my posts
Also Im new to Toronto, been here for 4 months
And the vibe im getting is they want people with experiance and not certs, but hey i follow SAM ideas and concepts closely, so he said this many times when you have family or friend that has IT thing make project out of it and document it and mention it, get your hands dirty you know, but credit that. That said Im the type that go home and work on my shit and experiment with new tech nearly everyday or week at least. So YMMV
This works only if you can get past the HR goons. Which is the world that Scott and his level of experience gain him. His skill/knowledge is that that he's often being recruited, he's not sending in resume's looking for a job.. so I don't consider his experiences the norm.
True, next time be nice with the HR, try to find something in common and stop talking IT with them and befreind them on the phone ;), I am so informal in this phone interview stuff, first I start format till they say anything... anything outside of the scope and I take that and let the dragging stories game begin.
uh - you missed the point. You typically submit your resume first - so having certs on the resume is why HR calls you in the first place... sure, if they call you - then do what you just said, but before that, the certs are the reason they called you in a lot of cases...
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@wrx7m said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
huh - did you send them an bill? That does seem unreasonable - you produced work, you should be compensated... who's to say they aren't just using you for free architecture design?
Yes. Being able to explain it in an interview totally acceptable, but providing finished document before interview unacceptable
I have a friend who is a trainer for a larger tech company. When she was interviewing for that job (or another one), she had to do a training presentation on something as part of her interview. I know it isn't quite the same, but still similar.
I would only expect something at that level when they are on round 3-4, etc of the hiring process. It definitely would not be in the early stages. At that point, I could see doing it. But for the architect design - it should still be pretty basic.. otherwise that's often considered core work product.
Now if they tell you to design something of your own creation, so that the result has zero actual value for them.... OK I could see that, but if they give you the specs, and they could then act upon those specs... nope, no bueno.
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@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
While that statement can certainly be true, the difference is proving you know something to your NEXT employer.
Certs famously prove nothing, though. That's the hardest part. It sounds good, but it means you are focused on employers who look to paper rather than results.
Nothing wrong with having certs, but an employer who cares about them is similar to an employer that cares about a degree.
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@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
If you have cert and knowledge you are golden ponyboy.
Um... are you? For me, as an employer, a cert shows one thing: effort. Unless you got the cert through a job or via a class, then it feels like someone trying to scam me.
I like employees with certs, in general, it shows that they are spending time and effort on their career. But only minimally so. Pretty much anything, other than a degree, shows more.
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@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
The more areas you can prove competency in thr more you're actually worth. Even expired certs from 10 years ago gave value because they will always prove you mastered the competency, and you will always be sme on the topic.
No, they show that you paid to get a cert. It doesn't even begin to suggest competency. Famously, MCSEs don't know the basics of using Windows. And that's a very high level, well known cert. SMEs are so many levels above certification, this discussion doesn't really make sense.
SME means you are the expert. Needing a cert means you are struggling to show basic competence. Those are the opposite ends of the spectrum.
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@Emad-R said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Not really, I'm severely lacking in IT certs but I'm doing fine in Canada, Toronto nearly 100K salary range.
I have more certs than anyone I know, well over 150 of them, and I don't have a single one on my resume. Took them all off long ago. I use certs as a bench mark for my self education - something to work towards and to help me ensure that I'm not skipping topics. But I'm not entry level, so having them on my resume would be goofy.
Your first couple jobs in the field, yeah, showing certs goes a long way to explaining why you are valuable without having experience. But once you have a few years of experience, entry level validations like education and certs don't make any sense unless you are stuck in entry level jobs.
There are a few exceptions, right now security still uses certs a tiny bit as a minimum bar, but most $300K+ security experts I guarantee don't have certs. It's still only up to the mid-range.
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@wrx7m said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
huh - did you send them an bill? That does seem unreasonable - you produced work, you should be compensated... who's to say they aren't just using you for free architecture design?
Yes. Being able to explain it in an interview totally acceptable, but providing finished document before interview unacceptable
I have a friend who is a trainer for a larger tech company. When she was interviewing for that job (or another one), she had to do a training presentation on something as part of her interview. I know it isn't quite the same, but still similar.
If an interview asks you to do your job in a way that can't be used for profit, that's generally fine. So just showing training is generally good. But asking to do a task the company failed to do is a common tactic to get free high end labour.
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@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
uh - you missed the point. You typically submit your resume first - so having certs on the resume is why HR calls you in the first place... sure, if they call you - then do what you just said, but before that, the certs are the reason they called you in a lot of cases...
Only if you want to work in shops where HR filters before experts evaluate. If that's the job you want or are willing to accept, that's fine, but that alone means you are choosing a cert entry level shop. Shops doing that can't get SMEs, for example. SMEs don't need to work for shops that act that way, and would be embarrassed to do so. There is more money, respect, and prestige at good shops.
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@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Being public and social with one's experience makes for a great CV (Curriculum Vitae).
This is huge. A real actual showcase to skill.
