ML
    • Recent
    • Categories
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Register
    • Login

    Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment

    IT Discussion
    zfs freenas freebsd storage hardware raid software raid raid
    6
    29
    4.1k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • S
      saniplastic @Obsolesce
      last edited by

      @Obsolesce said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

      @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

      1- backup my vms and recreate raid on Hardware and just present one logical drive to ZFS.

      Just an FYI: it's not a backup when it's the only data. If you back up your VMs, then delete the originals, you no longer have a backup. All you have then is original data with no backup! Proceed wisely.

      you right

      i should have 2 series of backup.
      thanks

      DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • DashrenderD
        Dashrender @saniplastic
        last edited by

        @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

        @scottalanmiller said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

        To follow up to an offline request for more info...

        Why do you need to avoid splitting RAID duties between a controller, and ZFS?

        First, this is a general rule and not specific to any of the tech here. The RAID system just need to be intact, wherever it is.

        Now, why is this?

        In order for the data integrity systems to be able to do their job and protect the data, there needs to be deep insight and coordination between logical levels and the hardware itself. This is so that components looking for hardware failure can verify higher up the chain if there is a way to reconstruct the data. The layer doing the scrubbing and the parity or mirroring needs to know if the hardware integrity is still there and, if not, what it needs to do to recover. Either layer can do this, hardware or software, but what it can't do is talk between the two.

        So if you have all hardware RAID, physical and logical layers can communicate to verify integrity. If you have all software RAID, you can do the same. But if the hardware layer and the logical layer cannot talk to one another, and one of them detects a problem, there is no way to do anything about it. Your overall system has all this information and data protection, but no way to do anything about it - the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

        Hence why it is so important to pick one or the other. Riding the fence and trying to leverage both is where problems arise.

        thanks all for reply

        so i need:
        1- backup my vms and recreate raid on Hardware and just present one logical drive to ZFS.
        2-disable S.M.A.R.T service.
        3-just use file system and not software RAID system of zfs.

        Where are you disabling SMART?

        scottalanmillerS S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @Dashrender
          last edited by

          @Dashrender said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

          @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

          @scottalanmiller said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

          To follow up to an offline request for more info...

          Why do you need to avoid splitting RAID duties between a controller, and ZFS?

          First, this is a general rule and not specific to any of the tech here. The RAID system just need to be intact, wherever it is.

          Now, why is this?

          In order for the data integrity systems to be able to do their job and protect the data, there needs to be deep insight and coordination between logical levels and the hardware itself. This is so that components looking for hardware failure can verify higher up the chain if there is a way to reconstruct the data. The layer doing the scrubbing and the parity or mirroring needs to know if the hardware integrity is still there and, if not, what it needs to do to recover. Either layer can do this, hardware or software, but what it can't do is talk between the two.

          So if you have all hardware RAID, physical and logical layers can communicate to verify integrity. If you have all software RAID, you can do the same. But if the hardware layer and the logical layer cannot talk to one another, and one of them detects a problem, there is no way to do anything about it. Your overall system has all this information and data protection, but no way to do anything about it - the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

          Hence why it is so important to pick one or the other. Riding the fence and trying to leverage both is where problems arise.

          thanks all for reply

          so i need:
          1- backup my vms and recreate raid on Hardware and just present one logical drive to ZFS.
          2-disable S.M.A.R.T service.
          3-just use file system and not software RAID system of zfs.

          Where are you disabling SMART?

          In the OS, I assume.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • matteo nunziatiM
            matteo nunziati
            last edited by

            Smart should simply fail as in a vm. I don't think you need to disabile it.

            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • DustinB3403D
              DustinB3403 @saniplastic
              last edited by

              @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

              @Obsolesce said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

              @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

              1- backup my vms and recreate raid on Hardware and just present one logical drive to ZFS.

              Just an FYI: it's not a backup when it's the only data. If you back up your VMs, then delete the originals, you no longer have a backup. All you have then is original data with no backup! Proceed wisely.

              you right

              i should have 2 series of backup.
              thanks

              He's saying you need to backup the metadata also.

              S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • scottalanmillerS
                scottalanmiller @matteo nunziati
                last edited by

                @matteo-nunziati said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                Smart should simply fail as in a vm. I don't think you need to disabile it.

                There is a service that runs attempting to monitor it. You can ignore it. But even better to turn it off or remove it.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • S
                  saniplastic @Dashrender
                  last edited by

                  @Dashrender said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                  @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                  @scottalanmiller said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                  To follow up to an offline request for more info...

                  Why do you need to avoid splitting RAID duties between a controller, and ZFS?

                  First, this is a general rule and not specific to any of the tech here. The RAID system just need to be intact, wherever it is.

                  Now, why is this?

                  In order for the data integrity systems to be able to do their job and protect the data, there needs to be deep insight and coordination between logical levels and the hardware itself. This is so that components looking for hardware failure can verify higher up the chain if there is a way to reconstruct the data. The layer doing the scrubbing and the parity or mirroring needs to know if the hardware integrity is still there and, if not, what it needs to do to recover. Either layer can do this, hardware or software, but what it can't do is talk between the two.

                  So if you have all hardware RAID, physical and logical layers can communicate to verify integrity. If you have all software RAID, you can do the same. But if the hardware layer and the logical layer cannot talk to one another, and one of them detects a problem, there is no way to do anything about it. Your overall system has all this information and data protection, but no way to do anything about it - the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

                  Hence why it is so important to pick one or the other. Riding the fence and trying to leverage both is where problems arise.

                  thanks all for reply

                  so i need:
                  1- backup my vms and recreate raid on Hardware and just present one logical drive to ZFS.
                  2-disable S.M.A.R.T service.
                  3-just use file system and not software RAID system of zfs.

                  Where are you disabling SMART?

                  in freenas gui.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • S
                    saniplastic @DustinB3403
                    last edited by

                    @DustinB3403 said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                    metadata

                    metadata?

                    please explain more.

                    matteo nunziatiM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • matteo nunziatiM
                      matteo nunziati @saniplastic
                      last edited by matteo nunziati

                      @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                      @DustinB3403 said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                      metadata

                      metadata?

                      please explain more.

                      The config files where the vm is defined. Do not backup the vm disk only. I suppose he referes to this.

                      S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • S
                        saniplastic @matteo nunziati
                        last edited by

                        @matteo-nunziati said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                        @saniplastic said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                        @DustinB3403 said in Deciding Between Hardware and Software RAID in My FreeNAS Deployment:

                        metadata

                        metadata?

                        please explain more.

                        The config files where the vm is defined. Do not backup the vm disk only. I suppose he referes to this.

                        I backup with veeam.
                        whole vm files.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • 1
                        • 2
                        • 2 / 2
                        • First post
                          Last post