Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?
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@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Quick numbers...
HPE StoreEver LTO-7 Drive is $3,650.
The tapes alone to here outweigh his budget assuming he bought only 14 tapes!
that's the DRIVE, not the tape, lol. He only needs one.
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LTO-7 are $74 each. They are 6TB raw, 15TB assumed compressed. So to get 200TB it would cost...
$74 * 14 = $1,036
If they wanted to do off site, you could get 200TB of on site capacity, and 200TB of off site capacity for just $2,100 in tapes and $3,650 in drive. And that's an expensive drive, you can get a nice Quantum for a little less.
If backup storage was the only need, you could do it all for under $4,000 USD, maybe around $3,500 USD!
You could do something pretty awesome for the kind of budget that they are talking. Hence why I'm flabbergasted by the combination of "not doing it enterprise" with "tight budget". The "normal" approach to this that is more reliable and flexible is so cheap.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Quick numbers...
HPE StoreEver LTO-7 Drive is $3,650.
The tapes alone to here outweigh his budget assuming he bought only 14 tapes!
that's the DRIVE, not the tape, lol. He only needs one.
OH ha I misunderstood you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
LTO-7 are $74 each. They are 6TB raw, 15TB assumed compressed. So to get 200TB it would cost...
The backups are already compressed via the backup software, such as Veeam. Veeam does great compression, so you just get the raw capacity on the tapes. So 6TB of backup data per tape. However, that 6TB may contain like 10TB of non-backed up data for example.
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@Obsolesce said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
he backups are already compressed via the backup software,
You assume!
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He could very well be using UrBackup which provides the option to compress (at the cost of extended backup windows).
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Back from shopping. Read the posts. Ok, so... the tape idea sounds like this could meet my needs.
I've not used tape, how does this present its self to the servers as storage? Do you have to swap tapes manually, or are they all added in to an enclosure and available? Are they available over a network, or as USB device? What sort of throughput do you get for writing data? How does this handle modified data?
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@DustinB3403 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
He could very well be using UrBackup which provides the option to compress (at the cost of extended backup windows).
Most things compress. LTO does some crazy compression on top of that.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Do you have to swap tapes manually, or are they all added in to an enclosure and available?
That would be a tape library. That's a lot more expensive, but might still be within your budget.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
Are they available over a network, or as USB device?
Yes, although SAS is the most common.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
What sort of throughput do you get for writing data?
Insane. It's so fast that you normally don't do it over a network because it saturates most networks. Tape is crazy fast.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
How does this handle modified data?
It doesn't, but you don't change data in backups, so that's not normally a big deal.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
I've not used tape, how does this present its self to the servers as storage?
Tape itself is a "presentation" media. So your backup software would know it is backing up to tape. It's the standard by which all tape systems work, and some disk or cloud systems use tape interfaces to provide a standard so that any backup software can talk t them (Starwind VTL for example.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
How does this handle modified data?
It doesn't, but you don't change data in backups, so that's not normally a big deal.
We are initially going to have to use Veeam Free edition. At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
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So let's start with some info...
- What is the size of a single full backup?
- What is being backed up?
- What is the retention period?
- What are the goals?
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@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html
That one.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
At the end of the retention period, it injects the oldest increment in to the original full backup... is that not possible with tape?
Definitely not possible with tape. But that's just one of the many assumptions that need to be changed. Someone did your backup planning based on false assumptions. You need to back up and decide on goals and make all decisions based on those goals.
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html
That one.
Good thing that I asked, this is a case where me being pedantic really did result in the answer no one would expect. "The free version of Veeam" means this one to almost all people: https://www.veeam.com/virtual-machine-backup-solution-free.html
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@scottalanmiller said
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/veeam_agent_windows_3_0_user_guide_pg.pdf
"Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file. To do this, Veeam Agent for Microsoft
Windows injects into the full backup file data blocks from the earliest incremental backup file
in the chain. This way, a full backup ‘moves’ forward in the backup chain" -
@Jimmy9008 said in Raid10, must use or another Raid limits?:
@scottalanmiller said
However, what you describe isn't exactly how Veeam works. Also, Veeam is a company, not a product, there are multiple free products from them. And they all work a bit differently.
https://www.veeam.com/veeam_agent_windows_3_0_user_guide_pg.pdf
"Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows re-builds the full backup file to include in it data of the
incremental backup file that follows the full backup file. To do this, Veeam Agent for Microsoft
Windows injects into the full backup file data blocks from the earliest incremental backup file
in the chain. This way, a full backup ‘moves’ forward in the backup chain"Yes, Veeam Agent for Windows does NOT support tape.
https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/agentforwindows/userguide/backup_job_target.html?ver=30
Veeam Agent is intended to be used as an agent backing up to a Veeam server. The Veeam server handles the tape. Here you are stuck with something much more complex because you are using only part of the Veeam system, they added some extra bits to make a free option, but the free option might cost you a fortune in hardware.
