Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@DustinB3403 said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@scottalanmiller said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@Dashrender said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@DustinB3403 said in KVM Desktop Setup Ideas:
@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
I have VMs on my local desktop with Hyper-V. Not production but they are good for a lab.
Is it your expectation to use XenServer as a desktop?
FFS did I say something that was confusing.
This is not an expectation generally made that a Type 1 Hypervisor can also be used as a daily driver. Persons who do this are making a case in which they need a daily driver and a Type 1 Hypervisor.
It is not the normal expectation.
I'm late to this - but I absolutely want this - hell I want this for normal users so they can be more protected.
I think you could with VDI. Just gets expensive.
Yeah - normals would love VDI if there was a super easy/cheap way to do it.
There is, don't use Windows.
did you miss the part where I said - normals?
What is this normals crap you keep talking about. There are IT professionals and then users.
The user doesn't need to know anything other than how to do their job.
So if your VDI solution uses a Linux terminal and reminna to access a Windows VDI your cost is greatly reduced.
Otherwise your licening just keeps building for their terminal and their VDI.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
VDA licensing is what is or was $100/year. that's for non-SA devices.
Right - But windows 10 pro + SA = $299 + $59/yr
$188 on Open License
That makes that lower overall.
You can get the base license from Open License? You're the one that keeps saying you can't get anything but upgrade licenses from Open License/Value, etc.
Not the base, the base comes with your hardware (OEM). Then you get the upgrade from the VLSC.
If I have a device that already comes with Windows 10 - why do I want VDI?
So that you have the ability to log in from any device, be totally mobile, take your environment everywhere without lugging a device around, and use far cheaper devices.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
VDA licensing is what is or was $100/year. that's for non-SA devices.
Right - But windows 10 pro + SA = $299 + $59/yr
$188 on Open License
That makes that lower overall.
You can get the base license from Open License? You're the one that keeps saying you can't get anything but upgrade licenses from Open License/Value, etc.
Not the base, the base comes with your hardware (OEM). Then you get the upgrade from the VLSC.
If I have a device that already comes with Windows 10 - why do I want VDI?
You priced it out with the assumption that you were using Windows on the end points, so I just went from there.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile? -
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
VDA licensing is what is or was $100/year. that's for non-SA devices.
Right - But windows 10 pro + SA = $299 + $59/yr
$188 on Open License
That makes that lower overall.
You can get the base license from Open License? You're the one that keeps saying you can't get anything but upgrade licenses from Open License/Value, etc.
Not the base, the base comes with your hardware (OEM). Then you get the upgrade from the VLSC.
If I have a device that already comes with Windows 10 - why do I want VDI?
So that you have the ability to log in from any device, be totally mobile, take your environment everywhere without lugging a device around, and use far cheaper devices.
Far cheaper, but still have windows on them? OK - but I still have to update those machines. - manage them. Though granted it becomes a lot easier because they are 'just windows'.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile?If you want to deliver an office 365 app and nothing else. Is an example I've seen.
Makes for data processing "easy" without any distraction.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
VDA licensing is what is or was $100/year. that's for non-SA devices.
Right - But windows 10 pro + SA = $299 + $59/yr
$188 on Open License
That makes that lower overall.
You can get the base license from Open License? You're the one that keeps saying you can't get anything but upgrade licenses from Open License/Value, etc.
Not the base, the base comes with your hardware (OEM). Then you get the upgrade from the VLSC.
If I have a device that already comes with Windows 10 - why do I want VDI?
You priced it out with the assumption that you were using Windows on the end points, so I just went from there.
Well - no I didn't... I priced it out as you purchased a Windows Pro full license, then added SA - that way you could use your Chromebook, yet have the licensing option of Windows + SA.
The question I have is - can a Windows machine with Windows 10 Home + SA be performant enough at a cost that is less than a chromebook + Windows 10 full license and SA OR Chromebook + VDI license?
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@DustinB3403 said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile?If you want to deliver an office 365 app and nothing else. Is an example I've seen.
Makes for data processing "easy" without any distraction.
I wouldn't need a VDI add-on for that - I could use RDS published app for that - I'd still be suck using the RDP protocol, and not ICA or something else.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile?Mostly it is stuff at scale or over the WAN where you need hard core WAN acceleration. Things that make sense when you have hundreds or users or whatever and want to leverage specific shared management of the machines rather than managing them the old fashioned way.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
VDA licensing is what is or was $100/year. that's for non-SA devices.
Right - But windows 10 pro + SA = $299 + $59/yr
$188 on Open License
That makes that lower overall.
You can get the base license from Open License? You're the one that keeps saying you can't get anything but upgrade licenses from Open License/Value, etc.
Not the base, the base comes with your hardware (OEM). Then you get the upgrade from the VLSC.
If I have a device that already comes with Windows 10 - why do I want VDI?
So that you have the ability to log in from any device, be totally mobile, take your environment everywhere without lugging a device around, and use far cheaper devices.
Far cheaper, but still have windows on them? OK - but I still have to update those machines. - manage them. Though granted it becomes a lot easier because they are 'just windows'.
Right, you can get Windows 10 and keep it going for seven years pretty easily, for example.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
Well - no I didn't... I priced it out as you purchased a Windows Pro full license, then added SA - that way you could use your Chromebook, yet have the licensing option of Windows + SA.
Can't add SA to Windows Pro Full, only to the upgrade from the VLSC.
So you'd need full + upgrade + SA to do that.
Instead you'd use VDA, which is a flat fee.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
The question I have is - can a Windows machine with Windows 10 Home + SA be performant enough at a cost that is less than a chromebook + Windows 10 full license and SA OR Chromebook + VDI license?
Nothing says you have to KEEP Windows on it. Buy cheap hardware with Windows 10 Pro, get your upgrade and SA and then install Linux if you want.
Performs better, lasts longer.
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@DustinB3403 said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile?If you want to deliver an office 365 app and nothing else. Is an example I've seen.
Makes for data processing "easy" without any distraction.
I wouldn't need a VDI add-on for that - I could use RDS published app for that - I'd still be suck using the RDP protocol, and not ICA or something else.
RDS itself is a high cost add on.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
Well - no I didn't... I priced it out as you purchased a Windows Pro full license, then added SA - that way you could use your Chromebook, yet have the licensing option of Windows + SA.
Can't add SA to Windows Pro Full, only to the upgrade from the VLSC.
So you'd need full + upgrade + SA to do that.
Instead you'd use VDA, which is a flat fee.
ERRRR - wrong - try again. You have 90 days to add SA to Windows Pro full. After that, you must buy the upgrade + SA.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@DustinB3403 said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile?If you want to deliver an office 365 app and nothing else. Is an example I've seen.
Makes for data processing "easy" without any distraction.
I wouldn't need a VDI add-on for that - I could use RDS published app for that - I'd still be suck using the RDP protocol, and not ICA or something else.
RDS itself is a high cost add on.
So this was something I wasn't sure of - do you need RDS licenses for VDI as well? I didn't think you did - for example, I don't need an RDS license to RDP into my work desktop from home.. the Pro license simply allows that (as far as I know). Does running the VDI on a VM host change that requirement?
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
Well - no I didn't... I priced it out as you purchased a Windows Pro full license, then added SA - that way you could use your Chromebook, yet have the licensing option of Windows + SA.
Can't add SA to Windows Pro Full, only to the upgrade from the VLSC.
So you'd need full + upgrade + SA to do that.
Instead you'd use VDA, which is a flat fee.
ERRRR - wrong - try again. You have 90 days to add SA to Windows Pro full. After that, you must buy the upgrade + SA.
What? Where can you do that? Is that inside the OS as an upgrade option? 90 days from when, install time?
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@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@DustinB3403 said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
I don't understand how to build a VDI infrastructure - something I've never done before. Will I have performance issues? how much RAM do I need? etc, etc, etc.
Nothing to it. Nothing at all. Just install individual Windows 10 VMs. That's it. Same as a desktop. It's literally the same as physical.
Only gets complex with you start not talking about VDI, but proprietary "VDI add ons" like XenApp or whatever. Those are what cost money and make it hard... also great value from other things, not knocking them, just don't make any assumptions.
Doing one to one, always on VDI is ridiculously easy. People just RDP to their private instance.
OK, that's good to know. Thanks.
I know it's off topic - but do you have examples of who those add-ons can be/are worthwhile?If you want to deliver an office 365 app and nothing else. Is an example I've seen.
Makes for data processing "easy" without any distraction.
I wouldn't need a VDI add-on for that - I could use RDS published app for that - I'd still be suck using the RDP protocol, and not ICA or something else.
RDS itself is a high cost add on.
So this was something I wasn't sure of - do you need RDS licenses for VDI as well?
Of course not, not relationship between the two.
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But you DO need an RDS license if you are going to put RDS in front of your VDI instances, which is so common (and makes so much money) that Microsoft often just acts like that's obviously "what you meant to do" and ignores that not everyone is going to do that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
@Dashrender said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
Well - no I didn't... I priced it out as you purchased a Windows Pro full license, then added SA - that way you could use your Chromebook, yet have the licensing option of Windows + SA.
Can't add SA to Windows Pro Full, only to the upgrade from the VLSC.
So you'd need full + upgrade + SA to do that.
Instead you'd use VDA, which is a flat fee.
ERRRR - wrong - try again. You have 90 days to add SA to Windows Pro full. After that, you must buy the upgrade + SA.
What? Where can you do that? Is that inside the OS as an upgrade option? 90 days from when, install time?
90 days from purchase of the Full (or OEM) license.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does VDI Conquer the Dashrender Challenge?:
But you DO need an RDS license if you are going to put RDS in front of your VDI instances, which is so common (and makes so much money) that Microsoft often just acts like that's obviously "what you meant to do" and ignores that not everyone is going to do that.
Now you've lost me.
You put RDS (as in terminal services?) in front of VDI? why?
