KVM Desktop Setup Ideas
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You say "It's so obvious that it is never a consideration".
Yet all the time we are dealing with situations where if people had but a bit of explanation why an alternative would've been much better, would many of these problems no ever have existed.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
You say "It's so obvious that it is never a consideration".
Yet all the time we are dealing with situations where if people had but a bit of explanation why an alternative would've been much better, would many of these problems no ever have existed.
We are, but not in cases where it would never come up. There is no need for explanations for things outside of scope. In fact, it would seem crazy.
No one asked for comparisons or is in a situation to consider something else. There is no reason to assume that they were considering doing something silly that they never mentioned.
If you feel that way, then why are you not mentioning hundreds of terrible things that they "might" have considered, but didn't mention?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
If YOU need to understand why you should never do this, just ask
This is the same mentality that SpiteWorks got fed up with. I understand the conditions and reasons for using alternatives. But people (and sorry for using you as an example @WrCombs) might literally not know the difference and need to understand why an alternative option is
chosenrecommended.that's fine, but it is not in the scope of this discussion. There is no end to "alternatives" we could mention. No one said that it wasn't possible, we just didn't bring up irrelevant plausible options.
Also plausible... not doing this at all, buying a server instead, using containers, buying one machine for each VM... on and on with silly "options" that you didn't mention for the same reasons we didn't mention Type 2.
The conversation started with "I need to run virtual machines on this old desktop that I might upgrade to 32GB of ram".
There are a lot of options here. Windows 7 and vbox is one of them, it's obviously a weird one.
But you should start the conversation with practical starting points. Benefits of Type 1 over Type 2 and why you may choose Type 2.
Then you'd proceed from there.
Yes these are all things that are readily known to the educated community, but for someone looking to learn saying "Do as I say" doesn't teach them anything but to repeat a process. It provides no understanding of the logic to using the process.
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@hobbit666 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
What combo is best to "get started" with KVM?
It's just for a standalone machine to host 5-6 VM's.
here is the original question.
There was NO discussion of what hypervisors to use, NO discussion of which kinds. Nothing.
Zero need to start talking about all kinds of things that he "isn't" doing.
This all started not because you felt Type 2 was an option, but because you @DustinB3403 claimed that the very thing all of us do, never happens.
Now you are talking about alternatives, totally different than what you originally said.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
If YOU need to understand why you should never do this, just ask
This is the same mentality that SpiteWorks got fed up with. I understand the conditions and reasons for using alternatives. But people (and sorry for using you as an example @WrCombs) might literally not know the difference and need to understand why an alternative option is
chosenrecommended.that's fine, but it is not in the scope of this discussion. There is no end to "alternatives" we could mention. No one said that it wasn't possible, we just didn't bring up irrelevant plausible options.
Also plausible... not doing this at all, buying a server instead, using containers, buying one machine for each VM... on and on with silly "options" that you didn't mention for the same reasons we didn't mention Type 2.
The conversation started with "I need to run virtual machines on this old desktop that I might upgrade to 32GB of ram".
No, it didn't, it started with him asking about KVM configuration.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There are a lot of options here. Windows 7 and vbox is one of them, it's obviously a weird one.
Endless options if you consider not staying in scope and not staying viable. Literally endless.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But you should start the conversation with practical starting points. Benefits of Type 1 over Type 2 and why you may choose Type 2.
No, because he STARTED way past that point. You don't need to back track just to show that we understood why he made the good decision that he did.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There are a lot of options here. Windows 7 and vbox is one of them, it's obviously a weird one.
Endless options if you consider not staying in scope and not staying viable. Literally endless.
In scope is strictly Linux plus KVM. Anythign else is out of scope.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Yes these are all things that are readily known to the educated community, but for someone looking to learn saying "Do as I say" doesn't teach them anything but to repeat a process. It provides no understanding of the logic to using the process.
That's great. So if you want to teach others, don't interject false information like "no one would do this". Instead ask "what were the factors that led you to this really common and obviously, but not the only feasible option?" So that we can learn from his decision process.
Claiming his decision was false, then claiming it is true but not the only possible option, helps no one.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This all started not because you felt Type 2 was an option, but because you @DustinB3403 claimed that the very thing all of us do, never happens.
This started because of the way the question is posed and the resulting answers provided, the lack of explanation to the answers and the continuation of "Just use Cockpit".
Which results in a multitude of other questions like: Why would he be using cockpit to manage his daily driver Type 1 KVM hypervisor to manage the VMs on it when he could use any of the graphical tools that are built in. Like Boxes.
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@Obsolesce said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There are a lot of options here. Windows 7 and vbox is one of them, it's obviously a weird one.
Endless options if you consider not staying in scope and not staying viable. Literally endless.
In scope is strictly Linux plus KVM. Anythign else is out of scope.
Right, that was the starting point. And no reason to back up, as there was no hint of anything not being chosen in the best possible way.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
This all started not because you felt Type 2 was an option, but because you @DustinB3403 claimed that the very thing all of us do, never happens.
This started because of the way the question is posed and the resulting answers provided, the lack of explanation to the answers and the continuation of "Just use Cockpit".
No, this started with him asking a simple, logical question that implied he had done everything right so far. Then you claiming that that "right" thing could never happen. That alone is the cause of the discussion we are having.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Obsolesce said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
There are a lot of options here. Windows 7 and vbox is one of them, it's obviously a weird one.
Endless options if you consider not staying in scope and not staying viable. Literally endless.
In scope is strictly Linux plus KVM. Anythign else is out of scope.
Right, that was the starting point. And no reason to back up, as there was no hint of anything not being chosen in the best possible way.
And by combo, well that was answered... fedora, kvm, cockpit... remote viewer, etc... could have stopped there
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Which results in a multitude of other questions like: Why would he be using cockpit to manage his daily driver Type 1 KVM hypervisor to manage the VMs on it when he could use any of the graphical tools that are built in. Like Boxes.
That's a totally different conversation. Now you are talking about the responses we gave to his question. Rather than the discussion at hand which is why you claimed his decision wasn't valid.
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
This is the statement that we are all addressing.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Which results in a multitude of other questions like: Why would he be using cockpit to manage his daily driver Type 1 KVM hypervisor to manage the VMs on it when he could use any of the graphical tools that are built in. Like Boxes.
That's a totally different conversation. Now you are talking about the responses we gave to his question. Rather than the discussion at hand which is why you claimed his decision wasn't valid.
I've not claimed his decision wasn't valid. I've said and implied your reasoning for supporting his decision is biased. And without anyone asking the question(s) "Why do you want to use Linux and KVM" and "Do you know how to use these tools at all?" "Are you wanting to learn how to use these tools?" Among other questions weren't asked.
By not asking these questions how can you really gauge what is an appropriate option for this specific case?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
This is the statement that we are all addressing.
Yes, because it isn't a normal expectation to take
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
What combo is best to "get started" with KVM?
It's just for a standalone machine to host 5-6 VM's.To mean:
I want to use my desktop to act as a Type 1 hypervisor over the alternatives of using his desktop like a co-located server or literally any other business option.
Treat your lab like you'd treat a business you owned.
Right?
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Which results in a multitude of other questions like: Why would he be using cockpit to manage his daily driver Type 1 KVM hypervisor to manage the VMs on it when he could use any of the graphical tools that are built in. Like Boxes.
That's a totally different conversation. Now you are talking about the responses we gave to his question. Rather than the discussion at hand which is why you claimed his decision wasn't valid.
I've not claimed his decision wasn't valid. I've said and implied your reasoning for supporting his decision is biased. And without anyone asking the question(s) "Why do you want to use Linux and KVM" and "Do you know how to use these tools at all?" "Are you wanting to learn how to use these tools?" Among other questions weren't asked.
By not asking these questions how can you really gauge what is an appropriate option for this specific case?
No, you said that no one wants what he wants.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Which results in a multitude of other questions like: Why would he be using cockpit to manage his daily driver Type 1 KVM hypervisor to manage the VMs on it when he could use any of the graphical tools that are built in. Like Boxes.
That's a totally different conversation. Now you are talking about the responses we gave to his question. Rather than the discussion at hand which is why you claimed his decision wasn't valid.
I've not claimed his decision wasn't valid. I've said and implied your reasoning for supporting his decision is biased. And without anyone asking the question(s) "Why do you want to use Linux and KVM" and "Do you know how to use these tools at all?" "Are you wanting to learn how to use these tools?" Among other questions weren't asked.
By not asking these questions how can you really gauge what is an appropriate option for this specific case?
No, you said that no one wants what he wants.
What?
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@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@DustinB3403 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
KVM is also nice because you can continue using that machine as a regular desktop as well, if you need to do so. (Can't do that with VMware, Hyper-V or XenServer).
No one expects to use their Type 1 hypervisor as a desktop.
This is the statement that we are all addressing.
Yes, because it isn't a normal expectation to take
We've covered that. It is. SO normal.
