Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Sunk cost = wants to spend money.
I love when you say these things. No one in the history of the planet has ever thought to themselves: Hmmm... I want to waste money on a phone system, so I'm going to buy this Mitel thing over here and blow a ton of money on it.
Actually, they sort of do. You just defend them and try to make them seem more rational than they are.
What they actually say is "I don't care about wasting money, that's not my priority."
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Did they fail in the first place by not hiring a buyer's consultant to find possible solutions? Likely.
And how is that a failure? Not by wanting to waste money, but by not caring about wasting money.
It's not that they waste money only to waste it, it's that they waste it because not spending money isn't important to them.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
How did they find themselves in the current situation? either a: called buddy - hey what/how are you using? do you like it? ok I'll get that too OR b: opened yellow pages to phone vendors and called an ad that looked good.
Calling a buddy, instead of doing any research or hiring an expert, is not caring about not wasting money. It's lazy, it's unprofessional, it's not business sensible, it's not rational. But humans aren't rational and getting them to not want to waste money is actually hard.
The first step is not pretending it doesn't happen. As long as we act like this craziness is rational, the easier it is for everyone to justify not acting rationally.
The problem is, they chose the system based on emotion, and their emotions drove, and continue to drive, them to waste money. No matter how you try to frame it, losing that money results in something that they desire and most likely the desire is a combination of wanting to not to put in any effort combined with not wanting you to realize they were fools after the fact.
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@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Did they fail in the first place by not hiring a buyer's consultant to find possible solutions? Likely.
And how is that a failure? Not by wanting to waste money, but by not caring about wasting money.
It's not that they waste money only to waste it, it's that they waste it because not spending money isn't important to them.
I know you call it adulting to be completely aware that one should hire a buying consultant pretty much for every decision - but I just don't consider that the norm thinking.. is that itself a failure - absolutely.. who's failure? Now that I'm not sure - our parents? our education system? simply ourselves? I suppose some of all of those. But it's also the reality. My issue with your constantly stating this is that you believe they are consciously going out of their way to "not save money" and I don't see it that way.
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@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
How did they find themselves in the current situation? either a: called buddy - hey what/how are you using? do you like it? ok I'll get that too OR b: opened yellow pages to phone vendors and called an ad that looked good.
Calling a buddy, instead of doing any research or hiring an expert, is not caring about not wasting money. It's lazy, it's unprofessional, it's not business sensible, it's not rational. But humans aren't rational and getting them to not want to waste money is actually hard.
The first step is not pretending it doesn't happen. As long as we act like this craziness is rational, the easier it is for everyone to justify not acting rationally.
The problem is, they chose the system based on emotion, and their emotions drove, and continue to drive, them to waste money. No matter how you try to frame it, losing that money results in something that they desire and most likely the desire is a combination of wanting to not to put in any effort combined with not wanting you to realize they were fools after the fact.
I totally agree that it happens.. but I don't consider it a malicious act like you appear to think it is.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
In both cases, at the time, they were given a price they could live with - having no clue what other options were available and at what costs... but again, they never had that first conversation with themselves that I posted at the top of this reply.
They had clues, you CAN'T keep treating them like they are that stupid. No one is. This is the continuous "other people are so dumb, but I'm smart and my friends are smart" thing that we all want to do because it makes us feel superior. But it just isn't true, they might be lazy, they might be irrational, they might be uncaring, they might be making excuses, but they are not mentally handicapped and clueless. Don't feed that system again, it's your (and most peoples') "go to" excuse for people not acting in a business fashion and it is illogical and unrealistic, they can't possibly be as dumb as you hope that they would be to make these kinds of mistakes repeatedly.
A "price they can live with" is just a polite way of knowing that they weren't getting a good deal but felt you were gullible and they could say anything and you'd buy it.
Bottom line, they didn't bother to spend less, because spending more is easier and they were likely insanely lazy because they wanted to spend more to do less, and like most people probably felt good about that because it is socially acceptable to be stupid and to claim stupidity as an excuse for not doing due diligence nearly every time.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
How did they find themselves in the current situation? either a: called buddy - hey what/how are you using? do you like it? ok I'll get that too OR b: opened yellow pages to phone vendors and called an ad that looked good.
Calling a buddy, instead of doing any research or hiring an expert, is not caring about not wasting money. It's lazy, it's unprofessional, it's not business sensible, it's not rational. But humans aren't rational and getting them to not want to waste money is actually hard.
The first step is not pretending it doesn't happen. As long as we act like this craziness is rational, the easier it is for everyone to justify not acting rationally.
The problem is, they chose the system based on emotion, and their emotions drove, and continue to drive, them to waste money. No matter how you try to frame it, losing that money results in something that they desire and most likely the desire is a combination of wanting to not to put in any effort combined with not wanting you to realize they were fools after the fact.
I totally agree that it happens.. but I don't consider it a malicious act like you appear to think it is.
Who said it was malicious? You read into it. They are the owners, it can't be malicious.
This is the AJ Syndrom emotional response. Just because it IS sunk cost, emotionally based, counter productive, not in the interest of the business... doesn't even suggest that it is malicious, because there is no third party being hurt.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
How did they find themselves in the current situation? either a: called buddy - hey what/how are you using? do you like it? ok I'll get that too OR b: opened yellow pages to phone vendors and called an ad that looked good.
Calling a buddy, instead of doing any research or hiring an expert, is not caring about not wasting money. It's lazy, it's unprofessional, it's not business sensible, it's not rational. But humans aren't rational and getting them to not want to waste money is actually hard.
The first step is not pretending it doesn't happen. As long as we act like this craziness is rational, the easier it is for everyone to justify not acting rationally.
The problem is, they chose the system based on emotion, and their emotions drove, and continue to drive, them to waste money. No matter how you try to frame it, losing that money results in something that they desire and most likely the desire is a combination of wanting to not to put in any effort combined with not wanting you to realize they were fools after the fact.
I totally agree that it happens.. but I don't consider it a malicious act like you appear to think it is.
The reason I think you feel this way - is because you say - well they did that, clearly they don't care - so they obviously don't care that they have to spend this ton more money to get some new feature they want.
But that is clearly wrong, because now, when they are looking at the cost of this new thing they want to add onto that old thing - they are just whatever'ed by the cost. If they weren't, they'd just buy it... but like my situation, they don't and decide to live without. -
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Did they fail in the first place by not hiring a buyer's consultant to find possible solutions? Likely.
And how is that a failure? Not by wanting to waste money, but by not caring about wasting money.
It's not that they waste money only to waste it, it's that they waste it because not spending money isn't important to them.
I know you call it adulting to be completely aware that one should hire a buying consultant pretty much for every decision - but I just don't consider that the norm thinking.. is that itself a failure - absolutely.. who's failure?
It is the failure of everyone involved because...
- There is no excusable person in business who doesn't know that this is true, even children actually know this even if they cannot articulate it.
- It is the normal thinking, don't act like it isn't, that's just a cover up.
- Because no one wants to do it because emotionally it isn't fun to admit we aren't the experts and spending money to save money "feels" bad we all look for ways to excuse it.
- They know that you won't hold them accountable to being rational adults and so will help them cover up being lazy or irrational so they don't "feel bad" about what they know that they just did.
Give them ANY credit for being sentient beings and logically, it all makes sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Did they fail in the first place by not hiring a buyer's consultant to find possible solutions? Likely.
And how is that a failure? Not by wanting to waste money, but by not caring about wasting money.
It's not that they waste money only to waste it, it's that they waste it because not spending money isn't important to them.
I know you call it adulting to be completely aware that one should hire a buying consultant pretty much for every decision - but I just don't consider that the norm thinking.. is that itself a failure - absolutely.. who's failure?
It is the failure of everyone involved because...
- There is no excusable person in business who doesn't know that this is true, even children actually know this even if they cannot articulate it.
- It is the normal thinking, don't act like it isn't, that's just a cover up.
- Because no one wants to do it because emotionally it isn't fun to admit we aren't the experts and spending money to save money "feels" bad we all look for ways to excuse it.
- They know that you won't hold them accountable to being rational adults and so will help them cover up being lazy or irrational so they don't "feel bad" about what they know that they just did.
Give them ANY credit for being sentient beings and logically, it all makes sense.
I am claiming it to be normal.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
How did they find themselves in the current situation? either a: called buddy - hey what/how are you using? do you like it? ok I'll get that too OR b: opened yellow pages to phone vendors and called an ad that looked good.
Calling a buddy, instead of doing any research or hiring an expert, is not caring about not wasting money. It's lazy, it's unprofessional, it's not business sensible, it's not rational. But humans aren't rational and getting them to not want to waste money is actually hard.
The first step is not pretending it doesn't happen. As long as we act like this craziness is rational, the easier it is for everyone to justify not acting rationally.
The problem is, they chose the system based on emotion, and their emotions drove, and continue to drive, them to waste money. No matter how you try to frame it, losing that money results in something that they desire and most likely the desire is a combination of wanting to not to put in any effort combined with not wanting you to realize they were fools after the fact.
I totally agree that it happens.. but I don't consider it a malicious act like you appear to think it is.
The reason I think you feel this way - is because you say - well they did that, clearly they don't care - so they obviously don't care that they have to spend this ton more money to get some new feature they want.
But that is clearly wrong, because now, when they are looking at the cost of this new thing they want to add onto that old thing - they are just whatever'ed by the cost. If they weren't, they'd just buy it... but like my situation, they don't and decide to live without.That's not "clearly wrong" because you aren't paying attention to the factors.
In the one case they are reverse rationalizing something that they perceived as a need and wanted to get out of it by being lazy.
The other is being asked to spend money for something that they don't see as a need, so lazy dictates "do nothing."
So your "clearly wrong" is "clearly backwards" IMHO. I see a consistent behaviour that doesn't change. The factors change, not the people.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Did they fail in the first place by not hiring a buyer's consultant to find possible solutions? Likely.
And how is that a failure? Not by wanting to waste money, but by not caring about wasting money.
It's not that they waste money only to waste it, it's that they waste it because not spending money isn't important to them.
I know you call it adulting to be completely aware that one should hire a buying consultant pretty much for every decision - but I just don't consider that the norm thinking.. is that itself a failure - absolutely.. who's failure?
It is the failure of everyone involved because...
- There is no excusable person in business who doesn't know that this is true, even children actually know this even if they cannot articulate it.
- It is the normal thinking, don't act like it isn't, that's just a cover up.
- Because no one wants to do it because emotionally it isn't fun to admit we aren't the experts and spending money to save money "feels" bad we all look for ways to excuse it.
- They know that you won't hold them accountable to being rational adults and so will help them cover up being lazy or irrational so they don't "feel bad" about what they know that they just did.
Give them ANY credit for being sentient beings and logically, it all makes sense.
I am claiming it to be normal.
Normal thinking is... "I need an expert to protect me, because I'm not an expert and this is complex." followed by "That sounds like work and I don't like work, and I don't like spending money because that feels bad and I know almost all people will think I was trying to be rational when obviously Im' being emotional and I'll never need to admit what I'm about to actually do even though I know better and everyone else knows better..."
That's normal. And that consistently makes sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Locking a port to a single IP is a trivial task for any gear, even consumer.
I wouldn't go that far.
I don't know much consumer gear that doesn't make that easy.
Super easy tomport forward? Yes. Able to restrict to a specific source IP? No.
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@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Locking a port to a single IP is a trivial task for any gear, even consumer.
I wouldn't go that far.
I don't know much consumer gear that doesn't make that easy.
Super easy tomport forward? Yes. Able to restrict to a specific source IP? No.
been a while since I used many, but I feel like that was pretty common on the ones I've used.
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@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Locking a port to a single IP is a trivial task for any gear, even consumer.
I wouldn't go that far.
I don't know much consumer gear that doesn't make that easy.
Super easy tomport forward? Yes. Able to restrict to a specific source IP? No.
eh - if you're only open for the trunk provider, then you can likely lock to one or a few IPs.
if you need mobile support - that's another story.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Locking a port to a single IP is a trivial task for any gear, even consumer.
I wouldn't go that far.
I don't know much consumer gear that doesn't make that easy.
Super easy tomport forward? Yes. Able to restrict to a specific source IP? No.
eh - if you're only open for the trunk provider, then you can likely lock to one or a few IPs.
if you need mobile support - that's another story.
Right, so if we are talking about a carrier like Skyetel, then the process is super easy. If you are talking about mobile, then we are talking about all of the responsive firewall problems.
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@Dashrender said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@JaredBusch said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
@scottalanmiller said in Skyetel Inbound SIP Trunk on FreePBX:
Locking a port to a single IP is a trivial task for any gear, even consumer.
I wouldn't go that far.
I don't know much consumer gear that doesn't make that easy.
Super easy tomport forward? Yes. Able to restrict to a specific source IP? No.
eh - if you're only open for the trunk provider, then you can likely lock to one or a few IPs.
if you need mobile support - that's another story.
How? Where? Been a while since I was in a consumer router, but port forwarding screens had nothing about source IP.
