Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Of course the company could still fire them, and I have no clue if the courts would make the employee pay back the training if they quit before X time.
No, you don't owe anything when being fired. It's a contract breach from the employer, unless you were fired for like stealing or something.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
Wow. That must make succession planning a nightmare. I have to give 3 months notice, which is the norm in the UK.
Not really, since you have to have already planned for disasters like getting hit by a bus, there should be no need for a succession plan. How would your company handle you getting sick or something? Same thing, US companies are ready for that. So people quitting isn't a real fear to any functional company. It's not ideal, but not a serious risk.
Most US companies demand that you not even come into work for the last two weeks because you are no longer someone that they want to trust or invest in. In banking, for example, you are generally done (but paid) from the moment you give notice. You give notice and security escorts you to your desk to clean it out and to the door to go home, that's it. You don't get one minute at your computer again.
It's amazing how many times this hasn't been true for me - like everyone of them.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy Now let's talk about 3 months. How many employers are going to be willing to wait 3 months for you to become free from your last job? Perhaps the 'demand' for 3 months notice is so prevalent there that most companies realize they have no choice. That could be said for our 2 week notice here in the US - i.e. a hiring company in the US generally expect a person to not be available for at least 2 weeks after accepting an offer because they will give 2 weeks notice to their current employer.
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
In high end jobs, they all do this. At McDonald's, they won't. Once you are in high ranks, this is normal, because transitions are so hard. So like in the finance sector, waiting months to get someone is the norm. You don't just have the old job to deal with, but the hiring process often takes 3-6 months, then they normally need to relocate, etc. It's a huge investment in time and money for all parties.
Now for normal rank and file staff, the US would never function this way. And it is one of the many reasons that the US manages to stay as rich as it does, we make "the ability to hire and work" so much better than most countries. We have a lot of faults, but our employment system is one of the best for both sides of the table. It's way easier to find work, way easier to keep work, way easier to hire people.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
A bit, perhaps. But it works both ways. If they want to get rid of me, they also have to give me 3 months notice, which gives me plenty of time to find another job.
Yes, there are good and bad parts and it is good that the rights are equal. In the US, it's one sided. Technically, by law, there is zero notice from either side. By custom, there is two weeks notice from the employee. That's what is unfair, is the extreme one-sided nature, but at least it is only two weeks.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
But 3 months - this really seems more like a way to keep people from moving around between companies, all the benefit to the company - and piss off mr employee.
A bit, perhaps. But it works both ways. If they want to get rid of me, they also have to give me 3 months notice, which gives me plenty of time to find another job.
WHAT? they can't just fire you? A layoff, I suppose I could understand the 3 months... but they can't fire you either? or am I over reading that?
We aren't talking about people stealing stuff or stabbing their boss. Of course they can fire anyone that they are prosecuting for crimes.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
No state has a law requiring notice. It's not a law, it's a custom that is almost worse than a law because it is enforced capriciously and secretly.
Like tipping.
You only think you're funny. (sarcasm)
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@travisdh1 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
No state has a law requiring notice. It's not a law, it's a custom that is almost worse than a law because it is enforced capriciously and secretly.
Like tipping.
You only think you're funny. (sarcasm)
Actually - I wasn't trying to be funny. I wanted to see Scott's reaction.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
This is just something that is not typical in the US.
I've worked for several US companies, but outside the US, and pretty much everywhere there is a version of what @Jimmy9008 described. My experience is in Ireland, UK, Russia, Israel and several Canadian provinces.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@travisdh1 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@WLS-ITGuy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Carnival-Boy said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Do you generally only give 2 weeks notice in the US?
Depends on the state. Wisconsin is a "hire at will" state. Technically no notice is needed but it is ideal to give 2 weeks.
No state has a law requiring notice. It's not a law, it's a custom that is almost worse than a law because it is enforced capriciously and secretly.
Like tipping.
You only think you're funny. (sarcasm)
Actually - I wasn't trying to be funny. I wanted to see Scott's reaction.
That was @Obsolesce. It's all still in the Mangolassi telegram group.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
When I left, my friends at the office told me they were meeting with a lawyer the very same day. Nothing came of it, because I didn't give them anything to base a lawsuit on, but the fact that they tried remains.
Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Typically it's that law that states you need to give X weeks of notice, and the same law that protects the employee from not getting paid for those weeks.
That's a state level law and I'm pretty sure nowhere in the US makes you give notice. If they do, it's an extreme exception.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
When I left, my friends at the office told me they were meeting with a lawyer the very same day. Nothing came of it, because I didn't give them anything to base a lawsuit on, but the fact that they tried remains.
Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)
Didn't the threat of a lawsuit prevent you from working in the US for a long time?
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Typically it's that law that states you need to give X weeks of notice, and the same law that protects the employee from not getting paid for those weeks.
Not in states that are "employment at will". Plus he has no contract. He could've just walked without discussing with anyone and never showed up again.
Correct, he has the right to "not show up."
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)
Yup, I know a few of the folks who left that horrid place. That's also the reason I'll be avoiding MSPs like the plague
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 so he walks out the door, and the employer refuses to pay what is owed for the last month. And there is no regulation for such a case? Damn, I wouldn't want to live in a place where this is the norm.
He walks out the door, but they must pay him for every day he worked, up until the point that they decided to fire him for not showing up and notified him of such (which can all be the same day, of course), and they must pay him roughly on time (you get like a week extra for processing a final check. You can never withhold pay, no matter the situation, ever. It's sacred.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
No. . .
But he can walk and gets paid for what he'd worked.
Who said anything about him not being paid for the time he's already worked?
If there is no regulation, who enforces the employer to pay?
Federal. Once pay is earned, it is yours. Not paying it is theft.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
This is just something that is not typical in the US.
I've worked for several US companies, but outside the US, and pretty much everywhere there is a version of what @Jimmy9008 described. My experience is in Ireland, UK, Russia, Israel and several Canadian provinces.
That is likely because the location you are in require it, not the US company.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
No, we have nothing like that. You earn money as you work, nothing more, nothing less. Work one day, get paid one day. No exceptions. In the US it is as simple as can be, which is really probably the best system. You work, you get paid. You don't work, you don't get paid. There is no attempt to manipulate complex hiring and firing laws. It's pay in exchange for work. but that pay is extremely highly protected.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 I see. And there is no compensation involved? Some countries I worked in, if you are sacked, you get compensation, but if you decide to leave, you get nothing
There could be, usually those are written into a contract. But those benefits do not always exist.
Extremely rare, in fact. I've worked around fifty or sixty jobs at least, never once have I had one. Not when I was an hourly blue collar worker, but when I was an executive.
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@dyasny said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
There could be, usually those are written into a contract. But those benefits do not always exist.
Guess I've been terribly spoiled by good conditions throughout my career then
I've only realised not all companies hand out company vehicles to all employees on my 16th year in ITWhy would you get a car working in IT? When do you need to drive anywhere? I don't even need a car to drive to work, let alone anywhere else.
