Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This
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@IRJ said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@tonyshowoff said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@flaxking said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
A real doctor wouldn't believe in the banging-on-wood-like-cures-like-nonsense of homeopathy,
Prescription drugs are so much more profitable. A good percentage of them create side effects worse than what they are treating.
Not to mention that doctors get kick backs from drug companies like conferences that are 1 week where only a day or two is an actual conference. The rest of the week is the family staying at the resort.
It's easy to make fun of homeopathy, because we are trained to think we are so much smarter by using prescription drugs that create terrible side effects that are rarely just physical. They are many times mental as well. It just crates a never ending use another drug to treat this side effect.
I know prescription drugs help people who are very sick and offer help that natural meds can't. However, most illness isn't life threatening and can be handled other ways like diet. It's the people who run to the doctor for minor things who like get the terrible side effects.
Homeopathy isn't even natural medicine though, it's literally just water. The idea that:
- "Like cures like" which is the indirect origin of the word homeopathy, which itself is Greek for "like-suffering", either of which concept are both ridiculous. You can't cure burns with bleach, but you can in homeopathy so long as you follow #2.
- That the more diluted something is, the more powerful it is. That's what those 10x, 13x, etc on homeopathy labels mean, those are levels of dilution, and the process it's done by is even more close to magic than I think most people realise, because...
- The way you dilute it is by putting your "like" chemical or typically flower or plant into water in a vial, then you bang it on a wooden plank a certain number of times, then you take a drop of that, put it into another vial, and then bang that, and you repeat the process until the dilution is so high that there's less than typically a single molecule of the original chemical/mineral/etc left.
- The more diluted, how many Xs there are, is related to its power. So 13 times dilution is more powerful than 10 times dilution.
I'm willing to believe that there are natural cures from plants and other things, and certainly this must be true, but I can't possibly believe that the more you dilute something the more powerful it is. That's not just pseudoscience, that's stupidity, you don't make coffee or tea more caffeinated by making it 99.999% milk.... unless you bang it on wood first of course.
I don't think most followers of homeopathy are stupid themselves though because they don't know the process and if they did far less people would believe in it, but many who do still believe in it do so because they believe in "water memory" and other nonsense like "water can take the form of other chemicals and your body read them like data off a hard drive"... which makes me wonder why that's superior to the original chemical/mineral in the first place.
Our bodies are actually pretty good at healing themselves, sometimes in surprising and amazing ways that even surprise doctors, but the problem is that when people take or use homeopathic medicine they attribute just the inevitable healing done by their own bodies to homeopathy.
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A recruiter wants to get a 1:1 with a candidate, much like a used car salesman. Facing a forum of people with all the communications public is detrimental to his job, much like if you go into a used car dealership with 20 friends backing you up, all the salespeople's tricks go down the drain.
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@dyasny While I would generally agree with needing a 1:1, that is why PM's exist.
A recruiting company could post their positions on the forum.
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
A recruiter wants to get a 1:1 with a candidate, much like a used car salesman. Facing a forum of people with all the communications public is detrimental to his job, much like if you go into a used car dealership with 20 friends backing you up, all the salespeople's tricks go down the drain.
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
A recruiter wants to get a 1:1 with a candidate, much like a used car salesman. Facing a forum of people with all the communications public is detrimental to his job, much like if you go into a used car dealership with 20 friends backing you up, all the salespeople's tricks go down the drain.
Recruiters are not like car salesmen in this aspect. The IT people are like the cars, the clients are like the car buyers. You absolutely want the cars all in one spot, not one on one.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
A recruiting company could post their positions on the forum.
And get swamped by people replying with questions they'd have to answer publically. Like "what are you guys paying?"
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@DustinB3403 said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
A recruiting company could post their positions on the forum.
And get swamped by people replying with questions they'd have to answer publically. Like "what are you guys paying?"
How is answering something once instead of a thousand times "swamped"? Reducing overhead is part of the goal.
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@tonyshowoff said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@IRJ said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@tonyshowoff said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@flaxking said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
A real doctor wouldn't believe in the banging-on-wood-like-cures-like-nonsense of homeopathy,
Prescription drugs are so much more profitable. A good percentage of them create side effects worse than what they are treating.
Not to mention that doctors get kick backs from drug companies like conferences that are 1 week where only a day or two is an actual conference. The rest of the week is the family staying at the resort.
It's easy to make fun of homeopathy, because we are trained to think we are so much smarter by using prescription drugs that create terrible side effects that are rarely just physical. They are many times mental as well. It just crates a never ending use another drug to treat this side effect.
I know prescription drugs help people who are very sick and offer help that natural meds can't. However, most illness isn't life threatening and can be handled other ways like diet. It's the people who run to the doctor for minor things who like get the terrible side effects.
Homeopathy isn't even natural medicine though, it's literally just water. The idea that:
- "Like cures like" which is the indirect origin of the word homeopathy, which itself is Greek for "like-suffering", either of which concept are both ridiculous. You can't cure burns with bleach, but you can in homeopathy so long as you follow #2.
- That the more diluted something is, the more powerful it is. That's what those 10x, 13x, etc on homeopathy labels mean, those are levels of dilution, and the process it's done by is even more close to magic than I think most people realise, because...
- The way you dilute it is by putting your "like" chemical or typically flower or plant into water in a vial, then you bang it on a wooden plank a certain number of times, then you take a drop of that, put it into another vial, and then bang that, and you repeat the process until the dilution is so high that there's less than typically a single molecule of the original chemical/mineral/etc left.
- The more diluted, how many Xs there are, is related to its power. So 13 times dilution is more powerful than 10 times dilution.
I'm willing to believe that there are natural cures from plants and other things, and certainly this must be true, but I can't possibly believe that the more you dilute something the more powerful it is. That's not just pseudoscience, that's stupidity, you don't make coffee or tea more caffeinated by making it 99.999% milk.... unless you bang it on wood first of course.
I don't think most followers of homeopathy are stupid themselves though because they don't know the process and if they did far less people would believe in it, but many who do still believe in it do so because they believe in "water memory" and other nonsense like "water can take the form of other chemicals and your body read them like data off a hard drive"... which makes me wonder why that's superior to the original chemical/mineral in the first place.
Our bodies are actually pretty good at healing themselves, sometimes in surprising and amazing ways that even surprise doctors, but the problem is that when people take or use homeopathic medicine they attribute just the inevitable healing done by their own bodies to homeopathy.
I got it confused for natural medicine. Natural medicine can never replace prescription drugs for anything life threatening. I just think sometimes docs are too quick to prescribe prescriptions.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Recruiters are not like car salesmen in this aspect. The IT people are like the cars, the clients are like the car buyers. You absolutely want the cars all in one spot, not one on one.
Nope, because the recruiter is selling you the position as much as he's selling you to the employer. If you're not interested, he loses as much as when the employer is not interested
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
How is answering something once instead of a thousand times "swamped"? Reducing overhead is part of the goal.
Because they don't want to answer such questions in public. This is exactly the used car case - whatever you agree on is what matters and the recruiter is there to pretty much get the most out of you. How often have you actually heard the recruiter say "they are paying X dollars" on the get-go?
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Recruiters are not like car salesmen in this aspect. The IT people are like the cars, the clients are like the car buyers. You absolutely want the cars all in one spot, not one on one.
Nope, because the recruiter is selling you the position as much as he's selling you to the employer. If you're not interested, he loses as much as when the employer is not interested
Yes, but it's one to many. Not one to one. It's very different from the way you are using the car buying model.
In reality, it's many to many. A recruiter will have loads of jobs and loads of candidates. But that's like a car salesman.
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
How is answering something once instead of a thousand times "swamped"? Reducing overhead is part of the goal.
Because they don't want to answer such questions in public. This is exactly the used car case - whatever you agree on is what matters and the recruiter is there to pretty much get the most out of you. How often have you actually heard the recruiter say "they are paying X dollars" on the get-go?
That's fine, but that's different than being swamped. That's not wanting to be exposed, which is a different problem.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yes, but it's one to many. Not one to one. It's very different from the way you are using the car buying model.
The model is one-to-one-to-one where the ones are you, recruiter and employer. Repeated times candidates, but also times recruiters the employer contacted and positions the recruiter can offer you with various employers and... In the end - the recruiter wants to convince you to start the process and hopes you can make it through the interviews. The first part is much harder when he is bombarded with questions (and sarcasm, of course) by a bunch of potential candidates, instead of just reaching someone he targeted specifically.
In reality, it's many to many. A recruiter will have loads of jobs and loads of candidates. But that's like a car salesman.
And the candidate might have many recruiters getting him into interviews and the employer might be working with many recruiters. It's a free market
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
That's fine, but that's different than being swamped. That's not wanting to be exposed, which is a different problem.
That's the reason they don't go for public conversations. You end up on the defensive and as a salesman (and that's what they are in the end) you never want to be there.
I'm on a few technical channels on Telegram, and every time a recruiter pops in trying to hunt for channel-relevant profile people, they end up running away, because questions start pouring in, most of them as snarky as you can imagine.
A community on facebook I'm in, just had a guy trying to recruit someone for a very cool position, but was offering about 50% of what the job was worth. He made the mistake of actually mentioning the sum in public, and was immediately told this is half the expected price. Which immediately terminated a few PM conversations he had going, because people saw that, checked the salaries online and told him to go look for suckers elsewhere. He could have been caught in a 1:1 conversation, but the chances of that are much lower, and he might have even found a cheap guy agreeing to the wages. And that guys would have signed some non-competition agreement which would effectively bar him from the industry once he realised he was severely underpaid and wanted to leave.
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
And the candidate might have many recruiters getting him into interviews and the employer might be working with many recruiters. It's a free market
That's where doing a better job and pulling in a unique talent pool could be a huge boom.
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@dyasny that is very true, any public discussion of jobs tends to expose how bad things are likely to be.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
That's where doing a better job and pulling in a unique talent pool could be a huge boom.
I doubt there is such a thing as "unique" talent pool. Every pro who is worth anything will have hundreds of recruiters in his LI connections after a while, and they can all try to tap him for the same position at some point. Happens to me almost on a weekly basis here in Montreal, and used to happen every day when I lived in Israel. I usually just go with whoever contacted me first, if I'm interested at all
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
That's where doing a better job and pulling in a unique talent pool could be a huge boom.
I doubt there is such a thing as "unique" talent pool. Every pro who is worth anything will have hundreds of recruiters in his LI connections after a while, and they can all try to tap him for the same position at some point. Happens to me almost on a weekly basis here in Montreal, and used to happen every day when I lived in Israel. I usually just go with whoever contacted me first, if I'm interested at all
Yeah, but most good people stop paying attention to them. I have hundreds, but not a single one can figure out what country I'm in or how to tell me about relevant jobs. The size of the pool doesn't do any of them any good, they can't identify skills, location, interest, etc.
In the SMB space, people actually struggle a lot to find recruiters that can handle them. Finding anyone recruiting outside of the key metros is actually quite hard.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, but most good people stop paying attention to them. I have hundreds, but not a single one can figure out what country I'm in or how to tell me about relevant jobs. The size of the pool doesn't do any of them any good, they can't identify skills, location, interest, etc.
In the SMB space, people actually struggle a lot to find recruiters that can handle them. Finding anyone recruiting outside of the key metros is actually quite hard.
Maybe, I'm not in SMB, and haven't been in over a decade, so I don't know. And the only companies I would go for are either very serious brands in the industry or startups that I have inside information about being potentially very successful. Also, I simply mark myself as belonging to a large metro area, even if I'm out in the suburbs and have no intention of commuting to the office every day. Been working from home for 99% of the time for the past 10 years, and I see no reason to change that
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@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, but most good people stop paying attention to them. I have hundreds, but not a single one can figure out what country I'm in or how to tell me about relevant jobs. The size of the pool doesn't do any of them any good, they can't identify skills, location, interest, etc.
In the SMB space, people actually struggle a lot to find recruiters that can handle them. Finding anyone recruiting outside of the key metros is actually quite hard.
Maybe, I'm not in SMB, and haven't been in over a decade, so I don't know. And the only companies I would go for are either very serious brands in the industry or startups that I have inside information about being potentially very successful. Also, I simply mark myself as belonging to a large metro area, even if I'm out in the suburbs and have no intention of commuting to the office every day. Been working from home for 99% of the time for the past 10 years, and I see no reason to change that
Yeah, but where do you "mark" things? It's not like there is some universal place to mark things. Every place that I have to mark things has be in Europe or LATAM, and I live in Texas, and that's all pretty obvious and public, but no recruiter I've ever seen uses any of those sources and just assumes places that I neither live in, nor or really from, nor consider going to.
