question on veeam backup
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@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
I am pretty sure that what I am trying to do requires a windows license. Its a dubious grey area at best as to if veeam requires a license or not. From what I have found so far, the consensus seems to be that veeam does not require a license if veeam is backing up VM's from that host. It is less clear when veeam is backing up VM's from a completely different host.
And you can only install Veeam into a full windows environment, I assume. In otherwords, I don't think you can install Veeam into Hyper-V Core.
So installing Windows Server 2016 on the hardware, then enabling Hyper-V service, still requires a license, even with zero VMs running.
that's my point.
I'm sorry - what was your point? or question?
My point was the a windows license is required either way. My question is, because a license is required either way, which is the prefered way, VM or physical?
VM for ease of migration. You want to get away from physical boxes as much as possible, except for your hosts.
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@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
Veeam licensing is based on the host processors for the guests that you are wanting to backup.
The local storage. Is that based on other factors or just based on Veeam?
we are strictly talking windows licensing. I have already cleared up the veeam licensing. The storage is local to keep the speed up. This host will have a 10G network to backup the production host. but all the secondary copies of the backups are all at 1G
If Windows licensing is the only thing we're talking about - then yes, you will need a Windows license assigned to the Veeam server (host).
It's about deployment location... do the "host" VM, or a "guest" VM. Dom0 vs DomU in Xen terms.
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@scottalanmiller said in question on veeam backup:
@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
Veeam licensing is based on the host processors for the guests that you are wanting to backup.
The local storage. Is that based on other factors or just based on Veeam?
we are strictly talking windows licensing. I have already cleared up the veeam licensing. The storage is local to keep the speed up. This host will have a 10G network to backup the production host. but all the secondary copies of the backups are all at 1G
If Windows licensing is the only thing we're talking about - then yes, you will need a Windows license assigned to the Veeam server (host).
It's about deployment location... do the "host" VM, or a "guest" VM. Dom0 vs DomU in Xen terms.
I guess that is the way I was trying to put it. Which is better, Dom0 or DomU? It seems like the portability of DomU is the real benefit of that location, but is there any offsetting benefit from Dom0?
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@PhlipElder said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
Umm, yeah. There is a lot better answer here. Install Hyper-V Server 2016 from ISO instead of wasting the license.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2016
Once Hyper-V is installed on all 3 hosts, either run Veeam B&R by itself on a server or run it in conjunction with another server that isn't being fully utilized.
Also, why aren't you clustering your hosts together and load balancing your VMs across all 3 hosts? Can they not see the same storage or something?
I am pretty sure that what I am trying to do requires a windows license. Its a dubious grey area at best as to if veeam requires a license or not. From what I have found so far, the consensus seems to be that veeam does not require a license if veeam is backing up VM's from that host. It is less clear when veeam is backing up VM's from a completely different host.
I do not need a cluster. My existing two hosts at this site are old and are going into semi-retirement such as just running veeam. My storage is being completely redone for this project.
Guest licensing is always based on the host. If VM is running in a Windows Server VM then the host needs at least one Server Standard license. That particular license allows for two guests. So, Veeam in one guest and a secondary DC in the other. Or, whatever the need may be.
I just took another look at my current server count. If I run the DC for this site on the backup host, that will give me a pair, and 4 on the production host vs 5:1. So that might be a good reason to do it, but it would require me to license the host for veeam to backup that DC, which is roughly the same cost as server. It feels like 6 one way and 1/2 dozen the other.
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@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@PhlipElder said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
Umm, yeah. There is a lot better answer here. Install Hyper-V Server 2016 from ISO instead of wasting the license.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2016
Once Hyper-V is installed on all 3 hosts, either run Veeam B&R by itself on a server or run it in conjunction with another server that isn't being fully utilized.
Also, why aren't you clustering your hosts together and load balancing your VMs across all 3 hosts? Can they not see the same storage or something?
I am pretty sure that what I am trying to do requires a windows license. Its a dubious grey area at best as to if veeam requires a license or not. From what I have found so far, the consensus seems to be that veeam does not require a license if veeam is backing up VM's from that host. It is less clear when veeam is backing up VM's from a completely different host.
I do not need a cluster. My existing two hosts at this site are old and are going into semi-retirement such as just running veeam. My storage is being completely redone for this project.
Guest licensing is always based on the host. If VM is running in a Windows Server VM then the host needs at least one Server Standard license. That particular license allows for two guests. So, Veeam in one guest and a secondary DC in the other. Or, whatever the need may be.
I just took another look at my current server count. If I run the DC for this site on the backup host, that will give me a pair, and 4 on the production host vs 5:1. So that might be a good reason to do it, but it would require me to license the host for veeam to backup that DC, which is roughly the same cost as server. It feels like 6 one way and 1/2 dozen the other.
You never take backups of more than one DC in your environment.
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@scottalanmiller said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@PhlipElder said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
Umm, yeah. There is a lot better answer here. Install Hyper-V Server 2016 from ISO instead of wasting the license.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2016
Once Hyper-V is installed on all 3 hosts, either run Veeam B&R by itself on a server or run it in conjunction with another server that isn't being fully utilized.
Also, why aren't you clustering your hosts together and load balancing your VMs across all 3 hosts? Can they not see the same storage or something?
I am pretty sure that what I am trying to do requires a windows license. Its a dubious grey area at best as to if veeam requires a license or not. From what I have found so far, the consensus seems to be that veeam does not require a license if veeam is backing up VM's from that host. It is less clear when veeam is backing up VM's from a completely different host.
I do not need a cluster. My existing two hosts at this site are old and are going into semi-retirement such as just running veeam. My storage is being completely redone for this project.
Guest licensing is always based on the host. If VM is running in a Windows Server VM then the host needs at least one Server Standard license. That particular license allows for two guests. So, Veeam in one guest and a secondary DC in the other. Or, whatever the need may be.
I just took another look at my current server count. If I run the DC for this site on the backup host, that will give me a pair, and 4 on the production host vs 5:1. So that might be a good reason to do it, but it would require me to license the host for veeam to backup that DC, which is roughly the same cost as server. It feels like 6 one way and 1/2 dozen the other.
You never take backups of more than one DC in your environment.
So the question of veeam licenses would be do I backup the DC at the HQ, or the DC at my branch. I've currently got two hosts worth of veeam licenses. I won't have anything besides the DC to backup at the branch with my current plan, so there really isn't anything there to help decide.
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Install Windows 10 on the bare metal and just run Veeam on it.
Do not add the Hyper-V roll. there is no point to it and you will not be able to back it up if you only have a Veeam license for 2 hosts anyway.
I typically have a left over desktop or something that I use to run Veeam itself, with the backup storage being a NAS.
But in the situation that I have left over server hardware with zero need for Virtualization of it, I would just install Veeam there. I would also buy a Windows 10 license for it instead of pay for a Server 2016 license.
The OS doens't matter to Veeam beyond being Windows.
Backup the Veeam config to a USB drive or something in case the thing pukes and you need to set it all back up.
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@scottalanmiller said in question on veeam backup:
@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
Veeam licensing is based on the host processors for the guests that you are wanting to backup.
The local storage. Is that based on other factors or just based on Veeam?
we are strictly talking windows licensing. I have already cleared up the veeam licensing. The storage is local to keep the speed up. This host will have a 10G network to backup the production host. but all the secondary copies of the backups are all at 1G
If Windows licensing is the only thing we're talking about - then yes, you will need a Windows license assigned to the Veeam server (host).
It's about deployment location... do the "host" VM, or a "guest" VM. Dom0 vs DomU in Xen terms.
If he does a host VM - why bother with the VM part at all? - I'm wanting Scott to basically say - you should always virtualize.
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I am not decided yet on purchasing server 2016 (or 2019). Part of me does not want to invest in those unless I've decided to move ahead with our current ERP and current file server and not change anything, just update the versions of server and SQL. But If I can figure out something else in the next year or two, I may just stick with the server 2012r2 that I am currently good on licensing for.
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@JaredBusch said in question on veeam backup:
Install Windows 10 on the bare metal and just run Veeam on it.
Do not add the Hyper-V roll. there is no point to it and you will not be able to back it up if you only have a Veeam license for 2 hosts anyway.
I typically have a left over desktop or something that I use to run Veeam itself, with the backup storage being a NAS.
But in the situation that I have left over server hardware with zero need for Virtualization of it, I would just install Veeam there. I would also buy a Windows 10 license for it instead of pay for a Server 2016 license.
The OS doens't matter to Veeam beyond being Windows.
Backup the Veeam config to a USB drive or something in case the thing pukes and you need to set it all back up.
the only thing that windows 10 doesn't have is deduplication, which is why veeam is currently running in server 2012r2
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@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@JaredBusch said in question on veeam backup:
Install Windows 10 on the bare metal and just run Veeam on it.
Do not add the Hyper-V roll. there is no point to it and you will not be able to back it up if you only have a Veeam license for 2 hosts anyway.
I typically have a left over desktop or something that I use to run Veeam itself, with the backup storage being a NAS.
But in the situation that I have left over server hardware with zero need for Virtualization of it, I would just install Veeam there. I would also buy a Windows 10 license for it instead of pay for a Server 2016 license.
The OS doens't matter to Veeam beyond being Windows.
Backup the Veeam config to a USB drive or something in case the thing pukes and you need to set it all back up.
the only thing that windows 10 doesn't have is deduplication, which is why veeam is currently running in server 2012r2
How does dedupe work on a backup server? Are the backups already compressed data streams?
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@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
@JaredBusch said in question on veeam backup:
Install Windows 10 on the bare metal and just run Veeam on it.
Do not add the Hyper-V roll. there is no point to it and you will not be able to back it up if you only have a Veeam license for 2 hosts anyway.
I typically have a left over desktop or something that I use to run Veeam itself, with the backup storage being a NAS.
But in the situation that I have left over server hardware with zero need for Virtualization of it, I would just install Veeam there. I would also buy a Windows 10 license for it instead of pay for a Server 2016 license.
The OS doens't matter to Veeam beyond being Windows.
Backup the Veeam config to a USB drive or something in case the thing pukes and you need to set it all back up.
the only thing that windows 10 doesn't have is deduplication, which is why veeam is currently running in server 2012r2
How does dedupe work on a backup server? Are the backups already compressed data streams?
This.
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I presume it works by being able to dedupe all backups against the other backups from other backup jobs. I have the compression level set to dedupe-friendly as opposed to "optimal" which is the default setting. I probably set it up this way because I probably read somewhere that windows dedupe was more effective than veeam compression, but I've honestly never done an A:B test to know for sure in my environment. Maybe my next step should be to configure multiple jobs to test the various likely settings that might be used and see what has the best overall storage ratio. That might help give more information about where should be, or at least the storage veeam.
I also just remembered that I had the thought a week ago or so that windows dedupe might be hurting my restore times and overall performance, and that might a reason not to use it (this thought applied to my file server too).
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@Donahue That is used if you have a backup appliance, such as ExaGrid, that you are sending your backups to.
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@NerdyDad said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue That is used if you have a backup appliance, such as ExaGrid, that you are sending your backups to.
I think I remember reading that windows dedupe should have used this setting too, but that was a few years back and my memory is a little fuzzy.
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According to Veeam:
If you plan to back up VMs running Microsoft Windows Server 2012 R2 and later, and Data Deduplication is enabled for some VM volumes, it is recommended that you deploy the Veeam Backup & Replication console and mount server on a machine running same or later version of Microsoft Windows Server with Data Deduplication feature enabled. Otherwise, some types of restore operations for these VMs (such as Microsoft Windows File Level Recovery) may fail.
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@Kris_K yep, that was it!
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However, like I mentioned a few posts up, I have considered not deduping my file server. I am also considering replacing it entirely with something different like NC, but I havent got that far yet.
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@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
However, like I mentioned a few posts up, I have considered not deduping my file server. I am also considering replacing it entirely with something different like NC, but I havent got that far yet.
So you're deduping the storage on the backup server AND running dedup on the fileserver?
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@Dashrender said in question on veeam backup:
@Donahue said in question on veeam backup:
However, like I mentioned a few posts up, I have considered not deduping my file server. I am also considering replacing it entirely with something different like NC, but I havent got that far yet.
So you're deduping the storage on the backup server AND running dedup on the fileserver?
currently, yes. And since my storage is all intermingled, it makes it very hard to know how much belongs to either. I don't like it and I am working on changing it all around.
