User Training Who is responsible
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@scottalanmiller that is a valid question but it isn't one we are allowed to ask.
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@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller So let me ask you this than.
In the world of not outsourced IT, do you believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has?
I believe that they should be given the training and pay to handle whatever they are asked to support. So yes.
So going to college for 4 years to know how to use AutoDesk Maya or some other solution is also within IT's realm than?
Seems odd to have that kind of stance since I doubt any engineer would ever dream of having an IT person do their jobs.
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@nerdydad said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has
Absolutely not. That is asking too much of IT. I don't know what outside pressures force them to perform such task in such a way. Their respective departments should have procedures properly documented and stored somewhere, whether they are on the network or not.
Going on @scottalanmiller statement that IT should have the training and pay to do anything and everything the user does would fly in the face of practical sense.
As an IT person I don't want to know how to do XY or Z!
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller So let me ask you this than.
In the world of not outsourced IT, do you believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has?
I believe that they should be given the training and pay to handle whatever they are asked to support. So yes.
So going to college for 4 years to know how to use AutoDesk Maya or some other solution is also within IT's realm than?
Seems odd to have that kind of stance since I doubt any engineer would ever dream of having an IT person do their jobs.
Absolutely, if you given that task and sent to college to learn that. Yes. That's exactly what I said.
maybe it seems that say, but engineers all over ask IT to do that.
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@nerdydad said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has
Absolutely not. That is asking too much of IT. I don't know what outside pressures force them to perform such task in such a way. Their respective departments should have procedures properly documented and stored somewhere, whether they are on the network or not.
Going on @scottalanmiller statement that IT should have the training and pay to do anything and everything the user does would fly in the face of practical sense.
As an IT person I don't want to know how to do XY or Z!
I didn't say to do what they do, to do what you are asked to do for them. Asking them to do that would fly in the face of common sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller So let me ask you this than.
In the world of not outsourced IT, do you believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has?
I believe that they should be given the training and pay to handle whatever they are asked to support. So yes.
So going to college for 4 years to know how to use AutoDesk Maya or some other solution is also within IT's realm than?
Seems odd to have that kind of stance since I doubt any engineer would ever dream of having an IT person do their jobs.
Absolutely, if you given that task and sent to college to learn that. Yes. That's exactly what I said.
maybe it seems that say, but engineers all over ask IT to do that.
But that is counter to the discussion, should IT be here to TRAIN an employee on how to use the tools with which the employee was hired to use?
You've stated NO beforehand. Now you're stating in a consultancy tone of "Well yeah if they are paid and trained in the software than they should"
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller So let me ask you this than.
In the world of not outsourced IT, do you believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has?
I believe that they should be given the training and pay to handle whatever they are asked to support. So yes.
So going to college for 4 years to know how to use AutoDesk Maya or some other solution is also within IT's realm than?
Seems odd to have that kind of stance since I doubt any engineer would ever dream of having an IT person do their jobs.
Absolutely, if you given that task and sent to college to learn that. Yes. That's exactly what I said.
maybe it seems that say, but engineers all over ask IT to do that.
But that is counter to the discussion, should IT be here to TRAIN an employee on how to use the tools with which the employee was hired to use?
You've stated NO beforehand. Now you're stating in a consultancy tone of "Well yeah if they are paid and trained in the software than they should"
Who is going to train people if not IT? What department has the skills or capability to learn lots of other things?
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@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller said in User Training Who is responsible:
@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller So let me ask you this than.
In the world of not outsourced IT, do you believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has?
I believe that they should be given the training and pay to handle whatever they are asked to support. So yes.
So going to college for 4 years to know how to use AutoDesk Maya or some other solution is also within IT's realm than?
Seems odd to have that kind of stance since I doubt any engineer would ever dream of having an IT person do their jobs.
Absolutely, if you given that task and sent to college to learn that. Yes. That's exactly what I said.
maybe it seems that say, but engineers all over ask IT to do that.
But that is counter to the discussion, should IT be here to TRAIN an employee on how to use the tools with which the employee was hired to use?
You've stated NO beforehand. Now you're stating in a consultancy tone of "Well yeah if they are paid and trained in the software than they should"
Who is going to train people if not IT? What department has the skills or capability to learn lots of other things?
Is it the IT departments responsibility to know how to wire up a 240 outlet or to unclog a sink as well?
The conversation is a simple one in most circles; IT isn't paid to go to training on how to use a plethora of software, and we aren't professional trainers with a training guide/script.
Can we from time to time learn how something works from watching the professional (engineer, designer, account rep) going on throughout their day. Certainly.
Does that qualify us as being capable of training others because we can ham our way through a 1 off issue?
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Now that isn't to say we can't tell an employee "this is how you access email or this is how screenshare".
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
Who is going to train people if not IT? What department has the skills or capability to learn lots of other things?
Is it the IT departments responsibility to know how to wire up a 240 outlet or to unclog a sink as well?
The problem here that companies face is that if IT can't do it, literally no one can. IT is the only "super department" with the kind of capability involved.
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
The conversation is a simple one in most circles; IT isn't paid to go to training on how to use a plethora of software, and we aren't professional trainers with a training guide/script.
Right, but that can't be applied to what I said, as I specifically stated that IT would have to have been trained and paid for every piece of software that management wanted them to train people on.
So any argument involving pay or training is moot, already explicitly covered.
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
Can we from time to time learn how something works from watching the professional (engineer, designer, account rep) going on throughout their day. Certainly.
Does that qualify us as being capable of training others because we can ham our way through a 1 off issue?
Hence why I stipulated the requirement for training.
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@dustinb3403 said in User Training Who is responsible:
@scottalanmiller So let me ask you this than.
In the world of not outsourced IT, do you believe that the IT personal should know how to use and operate every piece of software or hardware that a business has?
I believe that I should know everything about everything that is in my environment. This has a lot to do with my lack of trust in people, and that I need to know and understand it for myself. But I also believe that this is just an example of me going above and beyond and taking pride in my work. That being said, I do not know everything about all my things yet, nor is that really physically possible.
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@dustinb3403 Oh I agree with you. I have had to do this many times and its their job they should care enough about it to study at home and learn how to do their job.
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I am also a firm believer in the idea that I am being paid to solve problems. If the company really thinks that I need to be the one fixing the sink, they may have me do that. But in the end, I am valuable for way more than just IT. I get involved in high level business decisions because they value my input.
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@dustinb3403 Reluctantly, I suppose yes, at least to a small degree. It ultimately makes my life easier when I can decipher what they mean
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I'm with Scott - If you don't have a dedicated training team, then who else in the company would be able to do training?
As for should they knew ABC software before they come to work for you? That's the hiring manager's decision, not IT's.
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Train the head of each department and let them train their people.
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Where I work, I dont have control over my colleagues. I am sure most places suffer from those people that are just there to stay in their lane and keep the status quo, at least everywhere I have ever worked. This sometimes applies to department heads and those people that should be taking charge of things like training. Generally, I find myself training users on specific tasks that they need to do their job, but a lot of times it comes down to how to process a specific task within our ERP, or somehow relating to how they use the technology we provide. I dont train our estimators how to make an estimation, but I will show them how to enter that into our ERP, or show then where to put all related documents. In a company our size, if there is no one that will take charge and try and force some sort of consistency and order, there will be chaos. A great example is the idea of a classic file server, whether it is a NAS or something else. Without proper permissions and forethought, you will end up with multiple users trying to share the same resources in multiple ways, that are often mutually exclusive. It also doesnt help, when talking about training, that some 'department managers' or other mid level managers are not really managing as much as they are just the most senior person in that department. We have a lot of these types of managers where their workload is still doing the primary task of the department, instead of managing their workers who do the actual work. It makes it hard to have consistency for training, when no one seems to even have the time to train any properly, let along work up any training materials and document any procedures ahead of time. It pays off in the end when it happens, but its never an organic thing that happens, that's not how entripy works. This is one of the primary struggles for our company, and I have taken on some of this (not all of it mind you), possibly because I happen to be able to find a solution that fits our variables, and other people are not as well suited to the task.
