Router / AP / Switch for business
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@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
You know I'd personally only do ER
but for this guy with the night hawk 
a USG is nothing short of an improvement but if the owner was being serious about his business then yea I'd stick with ER-4 or 6That something is an improvement is never an okay guide. The goal is to make a good decision for them, not a bad decision that is better than an even worse decision made previously.
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@scottalanmiller Good point
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Example:
Current Decision: Lose Lots of Money!
Good Decision: Make Lots of Money!
Bad Decision: Lose Less Money than Before
Using bad decisions to justify more bad decisions is fundamentally flawed logic. You can make any arbitrarily terrible comparison to make any bad decision seem plausible.
For example, use the Cisco ASA for $5,000 as a comparison. Suddenly the Nighthawk seems brilliant. If we allow the bar to be shifted arbitrarily, we can justify anything.
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@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
mple, use the Cisco ASA for $5,000 as a comparison. Suddenly the Nighthawk seems brilliant. If we allow the bar to be shifted arbitrarily, we can justify anything.
That actually makes a lot of sense.
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Scott how do you feel about PFSense?
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@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
Scott how do you feel about PFSense?
As a hobby product to play with, its' fine. But building your own routers is silly outside of a lab and has no place in a business. PFSense is good for learning how routers work, but it's not something to deploy for real. PFSense is among the best of a bad category of things. It's the networking equivalent to NAS software. It's better in the stateless networking world, but still fundamentally silly.
You can't get good hardware to put PFSense on as cheaply as you can get things like Ubiquiti and Mikrotik so there is no call for it in the real world.
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Any product you want to be "cheap" or "easy" or "simple" needs to prove itself as being more valuable than one of those two products. Not because they are impossible to beat, but because they are widely available enterprise gear that sets the bar for quality, features, and price. They are better than anything in the consumer category, and better than a lot of stuff in the enterprise category.
If you want something that is consumer, DIY, or similar, it must be cheaper than one of these.
If you want something that is enterprise and loaded with features, that's fine but it must be enough better than one of these to justify the difference in price.
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@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
USG
But Scott a USG cost 100 bucks. That's gotta be cheaper than that Night Hawk!
That's a false comparison. The competitor is the ERX for $45.
That is a false comparison as the USG is actually comparable to the ERL, not the ERX.
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@jaredbusch said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
USG
But Scott a USG cost 100 bucks. That's gotta be cheaper than that Night Hawk!
That's a false comparison. The competitor is the ERX for $45.
That is a false comparison as the USG is actually comparable to the ERL, not the ERX.
Oh, because it has a console port? That's legit.
However, I'd argue in the cases where this is considered, the console port isn't useful. The USG in utility is below the ERX, making the ERX the proper comparison. The ERL might be closer in spec, but the ERL would also lose to the ERX for normal consumer use, IMHO. That the ERL is more akin to the USG only shows that neither is the good choice for most home users. Businesses might prefer the ERL (I do), but for a home user who can't use the console port, the ERX has the benefit of being smaller and having switch ports making it both superior in function and lower in cost.
So I think the ERL would be the bad comparison here, because it makes the USG appear closer to a reasonable price than it really is for the use case in question.
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@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@jaredbusch said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
USG
But Scott a USG cost 100 bucks. That's gotta be cheaper than that Night Hawk!
That's a false comparison. The competitor is the ERX for $45.
That is a false comparison as the USG is actually comparable to the ERL, not the ERX.
Oh, because it has a console port? That's legit.
However, I'd argue in the cases where this is considered, the console port isn't useful. The USG in utility is below the ERX, making the ERX the proper comparison. The ERL might be closer in spec, but the ERL would also lose to the ERX for normal consumer use, IMHO. That the ERL is more akin to the USG only shows that neither is the good choice for most home users. Businesses might prefer the ERL (I do), but for a home user who can't use the console port, the ERX has the benefit of being smaller and having switch ports making it both superior in function and lower in cost.
So I think the ERL would be the bad comparison here, because it makes the USG appear closer to a reasonable price than it really is for the use case in question.
Not because of the console port, but because a USG is an ERL with UniFi firmware instead of EdgeOS. The exact same hardware.
I won't argue functionality. The UniFi firmware guts the unit so bad in order to make room for the UniFi overhead.
But the ERX is also a really crappy unit in other respects. The inclusion of the switch port is a big problem as it leads to bad decision making by people that have no idea what they are doing. Also the lower memory amount was so unthought out by Ubiquiti that the units fail to upgrade firmware due to space constraints. The entire firmware upgrade process for the units was rewrote (release 1.9 i think) to clean space first because of it.
The ERX is better than the ERL because of hte processor though. So if the downsides are handled properly, it is certainly a better option from some points of view. I wish I had one at home to setup in place of my ERL to test throughput with QoS rules in place.
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@jaredbusch said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@jaredbusch said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
USG
But Scott a USG cost 100 bucks. That's gotta be cheaper than that Night Hawk!
That's a false comparison. The competitor is the ERX for $45.
That is a false comparison as the USG is actually comparable to the ERL, not the ERX.
Oh, because it has a console port? That's legit.
However, I'd argue in the cases where this is considered, the console port isn't useful. The USG in utility is below the ERX, making the ERX the proper comparison. The ERL might be closer in spec, but the ERL would also lose to the ERX for normal consumer use, IMHO. That the ERL is more akin to the USG only shows that neither is the good choice for most home users. Businesses might prefer the ERL (I do), but for a home user who can't use the console port, the ERX has the benefit of being smaller and having switch ports making it both superior in function and lower in cost.
So I think the ERL would be the bad comparison here, because it makes the USG appear closer to a reasonable price than it really is for the use case in question.
Not because of the console port, but because a USG is an ERL with UniFi firmware instead of EdgeOS. The exact same hardware.
I won't argue functionality. The UniFi firmware guts the unit so bad in order to make room for the UniFi overhead.
But the ERX is also a really crappy unit in other respects. The inclusion of the switch port is a big problem as it leads to bad decision making by people that have no idea what they are doing. Also the lower memory amount was so unthought out by Ubiquiti that the units fail to upgrade firmware due to space constraints. The entire firmware upgrade process for the units was rewrote (release 1.9 i think) to clean space first because of it.
The ERX is better than the ERL because of hte processor though. So if the downsides are handled properly, it is certainly a better option from some points of view. I wish I had one at home to setup in place of my ERL to test throughput with QoS rules in place.
We have an ERX in place, not one using QoS rules, and it's been great. Not what we use for the office, but just fine for the home offices. We've not seen any upgrade issues, doing it through UNMS hasn't created any issues for us (yet.)
The switch port can do bad things, but the extra routing port on the ERL does that, too. I've seen shops do some crazy things.
But that's not really a negative of the unit, just of the installers. Once you have a good install, the ERX tends to be the better deployment option in this range. The USG is definitely the ERL under the hood, but I think the ERX still stands as the de facto comparison for the majority of deployment cases.
In rarer cases, certainly the ERL still beats out the USG - both better performance, and lower cost.
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@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
We've not seen any upgrade issues, doing it through UNMS hasn't created any issues for us (yet.)
This issue was generally resolved prior to any UNMS compatible firmware.
But you will see this on every single ER-X firmware update notice even today:
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ewwww
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@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
I need to replace old 16-port 100Mb switch on our site with 11PCs and few other LAN clients.
What 24-port switch would you recommend in combination with this Mikrotik hEX?
Or do you recommend some 2in1 router+switch device? (I am not experienced with networking so I do not know if this makes sense).Currently, we use TP-Link's TL-R480T+ Load Balance Router between our 16-port Switch and 2 internet connections (one 4G mobile, and one 10/10 on optical fiber)
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@mario-jakovina said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
I need to replace old 16-port 100Mb switch on our site with 11PCs and few other LAN clients.
What 24-port switch would you recommend in combination with this Mikrotik hEX?
Or do you recommend some 2in1 router+switch device? (I am not experienced with networking so I do not know if this makes sense).Currently, we use TP-Link's TL-R480T+ Load Balance Router between our 16-port Switch and 2 internet connections (one 4G mobile, and one 10/10 on optical fiber)
Ubiquiti ES-24-LITE <$200
https://www.balticnetworks.com/ubiquiti-edgeswitch-24-port-lite-gigabit-switch-25w.html -
@krisleslie said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
You know I'd personally only do ER but for this guy with the night hawk a USG is nothing short of an improvement but if the owner was being serious about his business then yea I'd stick with ER-4 or 6
USG doesn't do wireless so this is apple/oranges.
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@jaredbusch said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@mario-jakovina said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
I need to replace old 16-port 100Mb switch on our site with 11PCs and few other LAN clients.
What 24-port switch would you recommend in combination with this Mikrotik hEX?
Or do you recommend some 2in1 router+switch device? (I am not experienced with networking so I do not know if this makes sense).Currently, we use TP-Link's TL-R480T+ Load Balance Router between our 16-port Switch and 2 internet connections (one 4G mobile, and one 10/10 on optical fiber)
Ubiquiti ES-24-LITE <$200
https://www.balticnetworks.com/ubiquiti-edgeswitch-24-port-lite-gigabit-switch-25w.htmlWow, that's cheap.
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@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@jaredbusch said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@mario-jakovina said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
@scottalanmiller said in Router / AP / Switch for business:
I need to replace old 16-port 100Mb switch on our site with 11PCs and few other LAN clients.
What 24-port switch would you recommend in combination with this Mikrotik hEX?
Or do you recommend some 2in1 router+switch device? (I am not experienced with networking so I do not know if this makes sense).Currently, we use TP-Link's TL-R480T+ Load Balance Router between our 16-port Switch and 2 internet connections (one 4G mobile, and one 10/10 on optical fiber)
Ubiquiti ES-24-LITE <$200
https://www.balticnetworks.com/ubiquiti-edgeswitch-24-port-lite-gigabit-switch-25w.htmlWow, that's cheap.
BUt only 25W... Usually a phone is between 3W and 4W usage, which can be roughly 8 phones tops plugged in and maxing out the power usage. But I guess for this project it might be okay.
