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    FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues

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    • coliverC
      coliver @EddieJennings
      last edited by

      @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

      Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

      Net Neutrality isn't a regulation. Title II is. Net Neutrality isn't about control at all. It's an idea that packets will be treated equally.

      EddieJenningsE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • DashrenderD
        Dashrender @coliver
        last edited by

        @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

        @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

        @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

        @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

        It's not about government control, it's specifically and uniquely about how a packet is treated on a network, or how all packets should be treated the same.

        We may have to agree to disagree about government control. Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

        I understand that it's about how a packet is treated as it travels over various networks. My point of view is that there is the potential for manipulation (to use Scott's word from an earlier comment) is going to be there, either from ISPs or from [insert regulator here]. Also, I'm not arguing that the Title II classification needs to go away. I'm just not convinced the world is about to end as most of my news sources are leading me to believe.

        say what? you think Title II needs to go away? why do you think that?

        He's not arguing that. I had to read it twice as well.

        odd phrasing. I guess he's just 'not arguing' 😉

        EddieJenningsE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • EddieJenningsE
          EddieJennings @coliver
          last edited by

          @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

          @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

          Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

          Net Neutrality isn't a regulation. Title II is. Net Neutrality isn't about control at all. It's an idea that packets will be treated equally.

          I agree with that. But isn't the issue of today the vote that the FCC is making about a regulation?

          DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • EddieJenningsE
            EddieJennings @Dashrender
            last edited by

            @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

            @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

            @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

            @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

            @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

            It's not about government control, it's specifically and uniquely about how a packet is treated on a network, or how all packets should be treated the same.

            We may have to agree to disagree about government control. Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

            I understand that it's about how a packet is treated as it travels over various networks. My point of view is that there is the potential for manipulation (to use Scott's word from an earlier comment) is going to be there, either from ISPs or from [insert regulator here]. Also, I'm not arguing that the Title II classification needs to go away. I'm just not convinced the world is about to end as most of my news sources are leading me to believe.

            say what? you think Title II needs to go away? why do you think that?

            He's not arguing that. I had to read it twice as well.

            odd phrasing. I guess he's just 'not arguing' 😉
            You're right, I'm not. 🙂 That's why I waited forever to put anything into this thread, because I knew it would be interpreted as an argument. [insert the samples that others will list that support the case for Eddie making an argument]

            EddieJenningsE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • EddieJenningsE
              EddieJennings @EddieJennings
              last edited by

              @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

              @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

              @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

              @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

              @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

              @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

              It's not about government control, it's specifically and uniquely about how a packet is treated on a network, or how all packets should be treated the same.

              We may have to agree to disagree about government control. Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

              I understand that it's about how a packet is treated as it travels over various networks. My point of view is that there is the potential for manipulation (to use Scott's word from an earlier comment) is going to be there, either from ISPs or from [insert regulator here]. Also, I'm not arguing that the Title II classification needs to go away. I'm just not convinced the world is about to end as most of my news sources are leading me to believe.

              say what? you think Title II needs to go away? why do you think that?

              He's not arguing that. I had to read it twice as well.

              odd phrasing. I guess he's just 'not arguing' 😉

              You're right, I'm not. 🙂 That's why I waited forever to put anything into this thread, because I knew it would be interpreted as an argument. [insert the samples that others will list that support the case for Eddie making an argument]

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • EddieJenningsE
                EddieJennings
                last edited by

                God damn it. Clicked the wrong thing. /sigh

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • DustinB3403D
                  DustinB3403 @EddieJennings
                  last edited by

                  @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                  @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                  @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                  Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

                  Net Neutrality isn't a regulation. Title II is. Net Neutrality isn't about control at all. It's an idea that packets will be treated equally.

                  I agree with that. But isn't the issue of today the vote that the FCC is making about a regulation?

                  It's about the regulation of the providers of service. Who can now choose to do whatever they want with the service you are buying from them.

                  IE they can reduce your ability to get access to NetFlix (imagine having to wait for over 3 hours to load a movie). You'd just stop using netflix and maybe even start using a service that they offer that competes with Netflix.

                  S coliverC 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • S
                    scotth @DustinB3403
                    last edited by

                    @dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                    @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                    @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                    @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                    Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

                    Net Neutrality isn't a regulation. Title II is. Net Neutrality isn't about control at all. It's an idea that packets will be treated equally.

                    I agree with that. But isn't the issue of today the vote that the FCC is making about a regulation?

                    It's about the regulation of the providers of service. Who can now choose to do whatever they want with the service you are buying from them.

                    IE they can reduce your ability to get access to NetFlix (imagine having to wait for over 3 hours to load a movie). You'd just stop using netflix and maybe even start using a service that they offer that competes with Netflix.

                    At twice the price

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • coliverC
                      coliver @DustinB3403
                      last edited by

                      @dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                      @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                      @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                      @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                      Any regulation of any kind is some form of control--not a positive or negative thing, it simply "is."

                      Net Neutrality isn't a regulation. Title II is. Net Neutrality isn't about control at all. It's an idea that packets will be treated equally.

                      I agree with that. But isn't the issue of today the vote that the FCC is making about a regulation?

                      It's about the regulation of the providers of service. Who can now choose to do whatever they want with the service you are buying from them.

                      IE they can reduce your ability to get access to NetFlix (imagine having to wait for over 3 hours to load a movie). You'd just stop using netflix and maybe even start using a service that they offer that competes with Netflix.

                      The potential, obviously potential, threat this has on US innovation is astronomical.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • DashrenderD
                        Dashrender @EddieJennings
                        last edited by

                        @eddiejennings said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                        I'm just not convinced the world is about to end as most of my news sources are leading me to believe.

                        That's just it - it won't happen overnight. It will take months or even years.

                        Before NN went into affect, comcast throttled users that were downloading torrents - why? because they were torrents, that's all.

                        As I said - in a true free market situation, where anyone could provide internet access to anyone, this wouldn't be a problem, there would be enough of a desire to have unthrottled internet access that a new company could come and fill the need. But we simply don't have this option. As much because of exclusive contracts as for gov't subsidies.

                        coliverC 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • coliverC
                          coliver @Dashrender
                          last edited by

                          @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                          That's just it - it won't happen overnight. It will take months or even years.

                          And it will be slow. I think @DustinB3403 mentioned the boiled frog analogy. This is going to be death by a thousand cuts and there will be no relief from a consumer advocacy group (which is what the FCC was originally intended to be).

                          DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • coliverC
                            coliver @Dashrender
                            last edited by

                            @dashrender Or government corruption.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • DustinB3403D
                              DustinB3403 @coliver
                              last edited by

                              @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                              @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                              That's just it - it won't happen overnight. It will take months or even years.

                              And it will be slow. I think @DustinB3403 mentioned the boiled frog analogy. This is going to be death by a thousand cuts and there will be no relief from a consumer advocacy group (which is what the FCC was originally intended to be).

                              Scott mentioned it, but it's exactly what will happen.

                              You won't think anything about having to pay an extra $50 per month to be able to watch Youtube or whatever service comes out in the future.

                              To think about this differently, imagine if hospitals had to pay for faster internet service so a specialist surgeon in France can perform a remote operation on a patient in Canada.

                              They do this today, but aren't charged extra for the bandwidth speeds required for this kind of service.

                              Now an ISP could force the hospital (and subsequently your health insurance) more for unfettered internet speeds across their network. So your 1Gbe internet connection is actually 1 Gbe end to end.

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                                last edited by

                                @dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                That's just it - it won't happen overnight. It will take months or even years.

                                And it will be slow. I think @DustinB3403 mentioned the boiled frog analogy. This is going to be death by a thousand cuts and there will be no relief from a consumer advocacy group (which is what the FCC was originally intended to be).

                                Scott mentioned it, but it's exactly what will happen.

                                You won't think anything about having to pay an extra $50 per month to be able to watch Youtube or whatever service comes out in the future.

                                To think about this differently, imagine if hospitals had to pay for faster internet service so a specialist surgeon in France can perform a remote operation on a patient in Canada.

                                They do this today, but aren't charged extra for the bandwidth speeds required for this kind of service.

                                Now an ISP could force the hospital (and subsequently your health insurance) more for unfettered internet speeds across their network. So your 1Gbe internet connection is actually 1 Gbe end to end.

                                Or could charge more depending on who you are!

                                DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • wirestyle22W
                                  wirestyle22
                                  last edited by

                                  Well

                                  That was nice for awhile

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • DustinB3403D
                                    DustinB3403 @scottalanmiller
                                    last edited by

                                    @scottalanmiller said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                    @dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                    @coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                    @dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                    That's just it - it won't happen overnight. It will take months or even years.

                                    And it will be slow. I think @DustinB3403 mentioned the boiled frog analogy. This is going to be death by a thousand cuts and there will be no relief from a consumer advocacy group (which is what the FCC was originally intended to be).

                                    Scott mentioned it, but it's exactly what will happen.

                                    You won't think anything about having to pay an extra $50 per month to be able to watch Youtube or whatever service comes out in the future.

                                    To think about this differently, imagine if hospitals had to pay for faster internet service so a specialist surgeon in France can perform a remote operation on a patient in Canada.

                                    They do this today, but aren't charged extra for the bandwidth speeds required for this kind of service.

                                    Now an ISP could force the hospital (and subsequently your health insurance) more for unfettered internet speeds across their network. So your 1Gbe internet connection is actually 1 Gbe end to end.

                                    Or could charge more depending on who you are!

                                    Exactly service providers will get charged through the nose to be able to provide service at any decent internet speeds across a competitors network.

                                    IE: No more apple pay on samsung phones etc. . . (as a bad example)

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • DustinB3403D
                                      DustinB3403
                                      last edited by

                                      State attorney general's from across the nation are suing the FCC to reinstate NN

                                      https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/state-attorneys-general-line-up-to-sue-fcc-over-net-neutrality-repeal/

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • ObsolesceO
                                        Obsolesce
                                        last edited by

                                        Yeehaw capitalism

                                        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @Obsolesce
                                          last edited by

                                          @tim_g said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                          Yeehaw capitalism

                                          Technically this is anti-capitalism. The FCC allowing private money to influence the government is as far from capitalism ideals as you can get. That's not an open market.

                                          ObsolesceO DashrenderD 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • ObsolesceO
                                            Obsolesce @scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by Obsolesce

                                            @scottalanmiller said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                            @tim_g said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

                                            Yeehaw capitalism

                                            Technically this is anti-capitalism. The FCC allowing private money to influence the government is as far from capitalism ideals as you can get. That's not an open market.

                                            Yes, fundamentally, idealy, capitalism is good, just like communism... but in practice (just add people) communism doesn't work.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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