What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?
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it was 2008 citrix acquired xen. red hat reacted buying the only other solution on the market. kumranet were strong in pushing their own orchestration solution.
part of it (the core: KVM) was open. tools givin added value (orchestrator) were closed and billed. don't know why but kumranet written everything in java. Maybe faster to develop then c++. less crosscompile (think mainframes). maybe node or python where simply too young or they where not happy with python speed - node was young for sure.
Red hat gots the entire blob. they have reworked it not rewritten.
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2007 for Xen and Citrix
(had the chance to meet the former Citrix CEO who did the operation)So for KVM, it makes sense. I think we still feel that lack of fully opened/clear API on top of it, and that's almost the reason of why vendors are making money on that: providing a turnkey stuff on top of it.
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@olivier said in What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?:
When I start to read "java", I got a gag reflex
Java has its place.
This isn't it.
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@scottalanmiller That's fair to say that yes
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@olivier YUP! and the http server is plain httprequest stuff from CPython, http framework around or stuff like uwsgi!
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@olivier here is the opposite side: an example of the ovirt->libvirt communication channel
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@olivier are you listening ??
Anton Gostev of Veeam (google him, if you don't know who he is) has a once week email digest he sends every Sunday.
I thought this was interesting...(quoting parts of this Sunday's email):"However, personally I don't see KVM presenting any significant threat to the leading hypervisors any time soon for a simple reason – it needs solid management layer before it can be successful in any market. In simple words, there's no "vCenter for KVM" available today – just a few point solutions which are rather exceptions proving the issue. Proxmox is a great tool for SMB only; Nutanix AHV does not support deployment into the existing, "classic" (non-HCI) infrastructures; and of course there's OpenStack – flexible and powerful solution for those few with an army of developers on staff. So, the issue with KVM is currently not with the hypervisor itself, and there's a huge opportunity to make it wildly successful even in its current state (as Nutanix already proved) – any ISV who decides to take up on this task has all the chances to become the next VMware, albeit in the shrinking "on-prem data center" market."
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@fateknollogee said in What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?:
@olivier are you listening ??
Anton Gostev of Veeam (google him, if you don't know who he is) has a once week email digest he sends every Sunday.
I thought this was interesting...(quoting parts of this Sunday's email):"However, personally I don't see KVM presenting any significant threat to the leading hypervisors any time soon for a simple reason – it needs solid management layer before it can be successful in any market. In simple words, there's no "vCenter for KVM" available today – just a few point solutions which are rather exceptions proving the issue. Proxmox is a great tool for SMB only; Nutanix AHV does not support deployment into the existing, "classic" (non-HCI) infrastructures; and of course there's OpenStack – flexible and powerful solution for those few with an army of developers on staff. So, the issue with KVM is currently not with the hypervisor itself, and there's a huge opportunity to make it wildly successful even in its current state (as Nutanix already proved) – any ISV who decides to take up on this task has all the chances to become the next VMware, albeit in the shrinking "on-prem data center" market."
Bah, who needs GUI based management tools, right @scottalanmiller?
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Ha, wonder why @scale doesn't just go all CLI since that's what a "real" sysadmin would use!
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@fateknollogee said in What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?:
@olivier are you listening ??
I'm reading, but yes. Why do you think that I'm not listening? The email from Anton could apply for Xen too. It's the exact same argument (it's related to Open Source hypervisor, he doesn't know Xen a lot probably). Sadly, XAPI is not enough community oriented.
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@olivier I know you are listening..just giving you a friendly hard time/reminder.
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@fateknollogee About what?
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@olivier said in What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?:
@fateknollogee About what?
About KVM management, the topic of discussion.
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Yes, and the conclusion is crystal clear: there's no "vCenter for KVM" because there is no community toolstack.
You can't "sell" a toolstack, it doesn't have any market/business sense. So you need to sell a turnkey hypervisor with your own toolstack. That's sad
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@olivier I hear what you're saying...how much help (aka advantage) did that "available" toolstack give XS?
I don't see a ton of people rushing to use XS just because it has a toolstack! -
@fateknollogee said in What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?:
@olivier I hear what you're saying...how much help (aka advantage) did that "available" toolstack give XS?
I don't see a ton of people rushing to use XS just because it has a toolstack!In fact, people seem to be running away from it, but mostly because the toolstack doesn't get the same love as the hypervisor itself and is so closely associated with a vendor that hates the user base.
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@fateknollogee Because nobody knows about XAPI. It's "just" a Citrix tool to make XS work with XenCenter. And that's the issue (as Scott said):
- it's Open Source but not community driven
- it's not enough modular
- it's in OCaml (not bad per se, but too confidential to build a community around it)
And the conclusion is a closely linked software to Citrix.
A "simple" solution would be a XAPI rewrite, while being community driven from the start. But Citrix doesn't care. Give me few millions, I can hire those guys myself and force Citrix to change its policy
edit: but believe me, I never spotted a stack like this anywhere else. It's a REAL complete stack.
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@olivier said in What is KVM Best Management Tools in 2017?:
- it's in OCaml (not bad per se, but too confidential to build a community around it)
Yeah, how the heck did this happen? Was Jane Street somehow involved?
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@scottalanmiller Xen is born at Cambridge Uni. There is a strong OCaml community there. That's why.
