Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?
-
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Couple terminology pieces...
Your HV is what runs the system, not the OS. Hyper-V is an HV, Windows is an OS. Your OSes are in your VMs and will go on the big RAID array. Your HV alone, which is tiny and has no performance needs, is what will go on the SSD array.
They are not partitions, they are arrays. Partitions are a completely different, but very specific, concept.
Sorry, when I say OS in this case, I mean Hyper-V. I'm installing the bare-metal Windows Hyper-V 2016 hypervisor.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
So wait, are slots 0 and 1 the 2.5" bays?
This R510 has 8x 3.5" drive bays. My SAS drives are 2.5" but I have the Dell caddie spacer things..
-
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Because this is totally useless and has no purpose and goes against everything. It will make the things that matter slow while speeding up the thing you will never use. It wastes capacity and you don't have very much of that to spare.
https://www.smbitjournal.com/2015/02/slow-os-drives-fast-data-drives/
Yeah I'm already aware of that. My limitation now is that I don't have 8 drives of the desired capacity to make OBR10. So I'm just setting up a RAID1 volume for the OS. Then it comes down to the question I made my post about.
So you have spare bays? That's a bit different. If you have extra bays, and spare drives, and nowhere else to use them... then whatever. How many spare bays do you have after you use up your 15K drives? A RAID 1 might not make sense. A larger RAID 5 might make sense (with the SSDs) and put some VHDs there.
I put all this in my original post
I have 8 bays in my R510. Right now, I just want to install Hyper-V, on a single drive, or two drives in RAID1. Then later, when I have a chance, I'm going to acquire 6 high capacity drives to put in a RAID10 which I can use for storage to hold virtual machines.
But this process should never happen in any production setup. It is the opposite of what everyone should be doing. As you are sacrificing a large storage capacity, and a ton of IOPS for something that needs almost no IOPS performance to operate.
OBR6/10 or OBR5 (if all ssds) are the approaches you'll be forced into doing in a production environment. Splitting arrays only removes reliability of the underlying array(s) rather than a single OBR.
Because in an OBR any number of the disks in the array can go tits up. In a split array scenario as described you can lose 1 drive and at that point your screwed. You have to replace the disk and hope everything works.
-
@coliver said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Hyper-V loads into memory no need to put it on fast expensive disk. If you're talking about putting VMs on this then that would make more sense.
That's kinda what I thought, but I wasn't 100% sure..
-
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Couple terminology pieces...
Your HV is what runs the system, not the OS. Hyper-V is an HV, Windows is an OS. Your OSes are in your VMs and will go on the big RAID array. Your HV alone, which is tiny and has no performance needs, is what will go on the SSD array.
They are not partitions, they are arrays. Partitions are a completely different, but very specific, concept.
Sorry, when I say OS in this case, I mean Hyper-V. I'm installing the bare-metal Windows Hyper-V 2016 hypervisor.
Right, Hyper-V is not an OS. Avoid that term.
Also there is more confusion about the product. Let's break this down.
Hyper-V is the Type 1 hypervisor, that means it is always bare metal. Never use the term "bare metal" with Hyper-V, because that is implied. It's redundant, but implies that you are confused and think that there is another option.
Hyper-V is Hyper-V, not Windows. There is no such thing as Windows Hyper-V. There is Windows the OS, and Hyper-V the HV. The two are distinct, separate entities that never merge together. So you have to figure out if you mean you are installing Windows or installing Hyper-V.
Hyper-V has a native installer ISO or it can be installed through a "helper" inside Windows. Those are purely deployment methods and not related to anything else here.
-
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
So wait, are slots 0 and 1 the 2.5" bays?
This R510 has 8x 3.5" drive bays. My SAS drives are 2.5" but I have the Dell caddie spacer things..
But you can't scrounge up eight drives, only six, that match?
-
The goal of using RAID is to provide the best reliability against when a disks dies.
If you can increase the chances of not being in a critical failure scenario, you'd take that approach unless you had some very clear technical reason to do something different.
-
Also never never never install the Hyper-V role from a bare metal installation of Windows Server. You are binding the licensing to the hardware of that server in this case.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Couple terminology pieces...
Your HV is what runs the system, not the OS. Hyper-V is an HV, Windows is an OS. Your OSes are in your VMs and will go on the big RAID array. Your HV alone, which is tiny and has no performance needs, is what will go on the SSD array.
They are not partitions, they are arrays. Partitions are a completely different, but very specific, concept.
Sorry, when I say OS in this case, I mean Hyper-V. I'm installing the bare-metal Windows Hyper-V 2016 hypervisor.
Right, Hyper-V is not an OS. Avoid that term.
Also there is more confusion about the product. Let's break this down.
Hyper-V is the Type 1 hypervisor, that means it is always bare metal. Never use the term "bare metal" with Hyper-V, because that is implied. It's redundant, but implies that you are confused and think that there is another option.
I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't talking about the Hyper-V role in Windows.
Hyper-V is Hyper-V, not Windows. There is no such thing as Windows Hyper-V. There is Windows the OS, and Hyper-V the HV. The two are distinct, separate entities that never merge together. So you have to figure out if you mean you are installing Windows or installing Hyper-V.
I meant "Microsoft" instead of "Windows"
Hyper-V has a native installer ISO or it can be installed through a "helper" inside Windows. Those are purely deployment methods and not related to anything else here.
?
-
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
Hyper-V has a native installer ISO or it can be installed through a "helper" inside Windows. Those are purely deployment methods and not related to anything else here.
?
Scott is referring to installing the Hyper-V role. It's the "manage my server" or "add roles" feature that scott is referring to as "helper".
-
The iso is downloaded directly from the TechNet website, completely free even though it's listed as an evaluation.
The wording is so weird. They need to sort that out. . .
-
@dustinb3403 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
The iso is downloaded directly from the TechNet website, completely free even though it's listed as an evaluation.
The wording is so weird. They need to sort that out. . .
They won't it's mostly to trick people into buying licenses.
-
@coliver said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dustinb3403 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
The iso is downloaded directly from the TechNet website, completely free even though it's listed as an evaluation.
The wording is so weird. They need to sort that out. . .
They won't it's mostly to trick people into buying licenses.
Good point.
Buy this completely free thing from us!
-
PS. I'm starting a business selling o2, $25.99 for a 2 lb bag.
-
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Couple terminology pieces...
Your HV is what runs the system, not the OS. Hyper-V is an HV, Windows is an OS. Your OSes are in your VMs and will go on the big RAID array. Your HV alone, which is tiny and has no performance needs, is what will go on the SSD array.
They are not partitions, they are arrays. Partitions are a completely different, but very specific, concept.
Sorry, when I say OS in this case, I mean Hyper-V. I'm installing the bare-metal Windows Hyper-V 2016 hypervisor.
Right, Hyper-V is not an OS. Avoid that term.
Also there is more confusion about the product. Let's break this down.
Hyper-V is the Type 1 hypervisor, that means it is always bare metal. Never use the term "bare metal" with Hyper-V, because that is implied. It's redundant, but implies that you are confused and think that there is another option.
I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't talking about the Hyper-V role in Windows.
Right, but that doesn't imply that in any way. But calling your install Windows Hyper-V, instead of Hyper-V, implied that you were doing the role. Because the role is every bit as bare metal as the normal install, saying bare metal doesn't mean anything at all. But including the word Windows would mean a lot.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
So wait, are slots 0 and 1 the 2.5" bays?
This R510 has 8x 3.5" drive bays. My SAS drives are 2.5" but I have the Dell caddie spacer things..
But you can't scrounge up eight drives, only six, that match?
I have a lot of low capacity drives (like 300GB drives) but it's a mix of 10k and 15k and then some are dead and some aren't.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
@dave247 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
My thinking is that I'd like the OS partition to be fast as possible, because why not.
Couple terminology pieces...
Your HV is what runs the system, not the OS. Hyper-V is an HV, Windows is an OS. Your OSes are in your VMs and will go on the big RAID array. Your HV alone, which is tiny and has no performance needs, is what will go on the SSD array.
They are not partitions, they are arrays. Partitions are a completely different, but very specific, concept.
Sorry, when I say OS in this case, I mean Hyper-V. I'm installing the bare-metal Windows Hyper-V 2016 hypervisor.
Right, Hyper-V is not an OS. Avoid that term.
Also there is more confusion about the product. Let's break this down.
Hyper-V is the Type 1 hypervisor, that means it is always bare metal. Never use the term "bare metal" with Hyper-V, because that is implied. It's redundant, but implies that you are confused and think that there is another option.
I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't talking about the Hyper-V role in Windows.
Right, but that doesn't imply that in any way. But calling your install Windows Hyper-V, instead of Hyper-V, implied that you were doing the role. Because the role is every bit as bare metal as the normal install, saying bare metal doesn't mean anything at all. But including the word Windows would mean a lot.
How is installing the Windows Hyper-V role on a Windows Server installation the same as installing the hypervisor? I thought that installing the role was worse than just installing the hypervisor since it's kinda sitting on top of the Windows Server OS and adds overhead or something.
-
Installing the role moves the previous bare metal installation to be above the hypervisor.
The windows server installation needs to be licensed and activated.
It binds the 2 VM's you can have to that hardware.
The part you are mixing up is that Installing the role on Windows (10 or Server 2016 or any Windows environment) is that it is taking that environment and transforming it into the Dom0.
The control domain.
So all of the limitations of that control domain are then brought into the hypervisor. Where as installing Hyper-V creates a completely free to use control domain at $0 cost to you, and without any of the restrictions from a Microsoft environment.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
Dell will often reject consumer drives. Or any non-Dell drives.
What? What do you mean reject them? They will complain, but the drives work just fine... At least everything I have tested.
-
@dustinb3403 said in Enterprise 15K SAS drives vs consumer grade SSD in a Dell server?:
Installing the role moves the previous bare metal installation to be above the hypervisor.
The windows server installation needs to be licensed and activated.
It binds the 2 VM's you can have to that hardware.
The part you are mixing up is that Installing the role on Windows (10 or Server 2016 or any Windows environment) is that it is taking that environment and transforming it into the Dom0.
The control domain.
So all of the limitations of that control domain are then brought into the hypervisor. Where as installing Hyper-V creates a completely free to use control domain at $0 cost to you, and without any of the restrictions from a Microsoft environment.
oh cool. I didn't know that.. I really need to do some learning..
