Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?
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@dashrender said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@jmoore said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I can't find anything about it on my Windows 10 machine either.
Like many Windows components, you have to install it. But unlike a third party package, you install it from Microsoft.
The problem with this is that it's not something that shows up under Add/remove features.
So my question is - how did you learn about this? Other than simply searching the interwebs, how is someone suppose to know this?
It's not like you can just bump into it in Add/Remove features like you can with so many other things.If you aren't a Windows Admin, no idea. If you are a Windows Admin this was pretty heavily pushed as information in the Microsoft "wants you to know" space. Lots of news outlets and such covered this. Microsoft definitely got the word out to their constituents. To some degree, working in the MS space means keeping up with Microsoft's different channels of information.
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Big news sources for Windows Admins are the PowerShell and Hanselman blogs. These are official, internal resources.
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/powershell/2015/06/03/looking-forward-microsoft-support-for-secure-shell-ssh/
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/powershell/2015/10/19/openssh-for-windows-update/
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ItsHappeningOpenSSHForWindowsfromMicrosoft.aspxIt's been two years of news on it
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@jmoore said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
Certainly good points. Since I haven't used Windows SSH before how does it compare to WinSCP?
WinSCP is just a client. Windows SSH is OpenSSH. Not "like OpenSSH", this IS OpenSSH, the same OpenSSH from OpenBSD that every major OS uses. So the exact same SSH that every Linux, BSD, UNIX, Mac and other OS has. Identical in every way.
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@dashrender said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@jmoore said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
Ok I see, I wasn't aware it was a free install. Why don't they just include it natively?
Not sure. It's a bit too new and they might be concerned about licensing conflicts. There are tons of Microsoft packages, like the SysInternals tools or the RSAT, that are super important and standard, yet not in the default installs. That it is in Chocolatey, though, is as close as they can get to having it built in without pushing it onto the install media.
I guess this answers my question. If they don't include RSAT in Win Pro, why would they include this?
/sigh.I've never understood that one. I guess because they feel it is too specialized?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@dashrender said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@jmoore said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
Ok I see, I wasn't aware it was a free install. Why don't they just include it natively?
Not sure. It's a bit too new and they might be concerned about licensing conflicts. There are tons of Microsoft packages, like the SysInternals tools or the RSAT, that are super important and standard, yet not in the default installs. That it is in Chocolatey, though, is as close as they can get to having it built in without pushing it onto the install media.
I guess this answers my question. If they don't include RSAT in Win Pro, why would they include this?
/sigh.I've never understood that one. I guess because they feel it is too specialized?
la sigh! They had the old Administrative Tools folder that only showed up when you were logged in as a local admin.. what's so much more about these tools?
but even if you don't install them by default, at least include them in Add/Remove features!
again - la sigh.
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I see the main problem with this. For most people that are not Windows admins they will not be comfortable at the command line and is why they use clients they can easily find by searching. Lots of people are just afraid of the command line if computer use is just a hobby for them.
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@jmoore said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I see the main problem with this. For most people that are not Windows admins they will not be comfortable at the command line and is why they use clients they can easily find by searching. Lots of people are just afraid of the command line if computer use is just a hobby for them.
Except that as a server, there is nothing to see. Having a SFTP client does little good if they can't get what they need to a system.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@dashrender said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@jmoore said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
Ok I see, I wasn't aware it was a free install. Why don't they just include it natively?
Not sure. It's a bit too new and they might be concerned about licensing conflicts. There are tons of Microsoft packages, like the SysInternals tools or the RSAT, that are super important and standard, yet not in the default installs. That it is in Chocolatey, though, is as close as they can get to having it built in without pushing it onto the install media.
I guess this answers my question. If they don't include RSAT in Win Pro, why would they include this?
/sigh.I've never understood that one. I guess because they feel it is too specialized?
It would be nice if RSAT was an option when turning on or off features. In Windows 10, after installing RSAT it's already turned on. So maybe in the next releases Microsoft will include it.
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@scottalanmiller you got to be fuck kidding me. How dense are you? It is barely two years of news and it certainly is not big news splashed all over everything.
Yeah if you search carefully, you will find it, but if you search for SCP, like most people do, you find third party solutions that have been around for decades and work well.
That does not mean that there is anything wrong with people.
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@jaredbusch said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@scottalanmiller you got to be fuck kidding me. How dense are you? It is barely two years of news and it certainly is not big news splashed all over everything.
Yeah if you search carefully, you will find it, but if you search for SCP, like most people do, you find third party solutions that have been around for decades and work well.
That does not mean that there is anything wrong with people.
This backs up what I found in one of those blog posts.
https://i.imgur.com/1jEB5xr.png
According to this, it's not even production ready yet. -
I've found OpenSSH on Windows to be missing some features that Linux has. It may be a Windows vs Linux thing but home directories and jails seem to be both missing. There were some others in the past but don't remember what they were offhand.
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@coliver said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I've found OpenSSH on Windows to be missing some features that Linux has. It may be a Windows vs Linux thing but home directories and jails seem to be both missing. There were some others in the past but don't remember what they were offhand.
How long ago did you try?
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@dashrender said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@coliver said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I've found OpenSSH on Windows to be missing some features that Linux has. It may be a Windows vs Linux thing but home directories and jails seem to be both missing. There were some others in the past but don't remember what they were offhand.
How long ago did you try?
January.
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@coliver said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I've found OpenSSH on Windows to be missing some features that Linux has. It may be a Windows vs Linux thing but home directories and jails seem to be both missing. There were some others in the past but don't remember what they were offhand.
Those are not features of SSH. SSH doesn't have them on either platform.
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We keep talking about ssh on Windows but what about PowerShell on Linux?
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@black3dynamite said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
We keep talking about ssh on Windows but what about PowerShell on Linux?
That works great too. We've had that for a while (like a year.) Microsoft has put a lot of effort into that. It's to make that more broadly useful is why the push for SSH by the PS team.
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I've had it for quite a while. Works just fine.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@coliver said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I've found OpenSSH on Windows to be missing some features that Linux has. It may be a Windows vs Linux thing but home directories and jails seem to be both missing. There were some others in the past but don't remember what they were offhand.
Those are not features of SSH. SSH doesn't have them on either platform.
That's fine... but that's one of the reasons we needed to look at a different SFTP server that allowed us to designate home directories and jails for users.
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@coliver said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
@coliver said in Why Does Windows Need Special SFTP Functionality?:
I've found OpenSSH on Windows to be missing some features that Linux has. It may be a Windows vs Linux thing but home directories and jails seem to be both missing. There were some others in the past but don't remember what they were offhand.
Those are not features of SSH. SSH doesn't have them on either platform.
That's fine... but that's one of the reasons we needed to look at a different SFTP server that allowed us to designate home directories and jails for users.
Seems like an odd functionality to want in your SSH server. Why do you want that on Windows?
