The Motivations of Sales
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If we only were going to buy the right products for our needs, we would not need sales people. We would simply research what we need, or talk to someone who has produced a matrix that would tell us what is best for our needs, and buy that thing. Resellers and vendors would not employ sales people, often at very high cost, because they would add no value.
In the real world, sales people drive the purchasing of products. People and even companies rarely buy based on their needs, but rather based on sales tactics! It's hard to believe that the world at large is that irrational, but it actually is.
Whether a salesman finalizes a sale that might otherwise have walked away, increases the size or scope of the sale, increases the price through negotiations, bundles in additional products or services, creates a long term return relationship or whatever sales people create value because they increase the money that customers spend.
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To look at it mathematically as a customer, think about a salesman's salary, let's say $100,000 per year. Then divide that into the amount of time spent dealing with you, your company, your needs. Then add in the time between you and the next customer. And add in the time and costs of acquiring you as a customer. Don't forget taxes, fees, real estate, and so forth. Then divide that up. That's the amount of money, on average, that the sales person has to earn on top of the sale from over selling to you, to cover their cost of existing.
Let's assume a large sale requiring a week of sales team effort to sell you a product that you may or may not need. Let's say it is selling you a $50K piece of equipment. To pay for the salesman, he has to increase the total profit on that sale by $4,000 - $5,000 dollars. Assume profit margin is 20%. That means that he has to oversell you by $20K - $25K just to cover the cost of his time, without him earning anything for the reseller! So assume that you need to double that number again. So $40K - $50K.
It is pretty trivial that for a $50K product sale, $50K of additional sales must exist to cover the overhead of selling. As an extremely rough number, a sales person might need to double the average spend of a customer to justify having a job. And any customer that doesn't overbuy or doesn't buy at all represents a loss that needs to be covered by other customers.
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It's that known situation where the company is purposefully employing tactics that they know you will fall for to buy more than you need that, to me, makes the company/sales person seem unethical. They are aware of a flaw in people and they are purposefully exploiting it.
I'm looking forward to your explanation of how this is different from hackers who hack into your network. Ok before you call me a quack- I know that with the sales person they are getting you to act against your own best interests and the hacker is taking advantage of a flaw you might not even be aware of, etc. so just roll with h me on this one if for no other reason than to give you another way to prove your point.
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From the sounds of it, a properly run company should never talk to a sales person. I suppose the exception is to get purely factual data out, but even that is very difficult because "the facts" can be presented in a way to seem like they are saying one thing but really not.
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@Dashrender said in The Motivations of Sales:
It's that known situation where the company is purposefully employing tactics that they know you will fall for to buy more than you need that, to me, makes the company/sales person seem unethical.
But it isn't. Being illogical falls to no one but the buyer. By your description, just making a really good product would be unethical, obviously that is not the case.
There isn't anything even slightly unethical about promoting a product.
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@Dashrender said in The Motivations of Sales:
From the sounds of it, a properly run company should never talk to a sales person.
A properly run one would not be influenced by one. In between bad and ideal is reality. In reality, only people who are competent to deal with sales people, know how and when to deal with them and properly understanding their own ethical responsibilities should do so. Salespeople have value, but only to logical, researched people.
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@Dashrender said in The Motivations of Sales:
I'm looking forward to your explanation of how this is different from hackers who hack into your network.
Hackers break in where they are not invited. Sales people are invited in and asked to take what they want. Totally opposite things. Hackers take what you don't want them to take. Sales people take only what you request that they take.
Also, hackers take without giving. Salespeople have a transaction that only happens if you feel that you are getting the better deal. It is always at your discretion.
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@Dashrender said in The Motivations of Sales:
I know that with the sales person they are getting you to act against your own best interests....
Not quite. They LET you act against your own best interest. Humans do this with or without sales people. Sales people are just there to make money on people wanting to act in that way.
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@Dashrender said in The Motivations of Sales:
They are aware of a flaw in people and they are purposefully exploiting it.
You can say this about anything. Food exploits hunger. Water exploits thirst. This is less than how much nature exploits us. It's exploitation of a desire to be illogical. Is it a flaw? That's up to you. But it is a flaw we all control. We control if sales conversations happen. We control if we decide to not do research. We control everything. If the flaw is exploited, it is primarily exploited by the customer.
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So the example I would like explanation for is ... you are a one man computer consultancy. You set up network and servers for people. While at a client, you notice one of their hard drives is failing, and you recommend they replace it.
Are you a salesman, since you stand to benefit?
Are you unethical?
Should you not be trusted?
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@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Are you a salesman, since you stand to benefit?
Are you the one doing the replacement? Normally the customer would just replace it. but if you are selling time for you to do the replacement, then sure, you are always a salesman of your services.
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@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Are you unethical?
There is nothing unethical about sales. How does this question ever come up? I'm so confused where people find the idea that there is even a chance for something unethical to exist (in the sales process.) Of course if you assume he's lying about you needing a drive, then that would be unethical. Or if he broke the drive to make you need one.
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@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Should you not be trusted?
Trusted to act the role of a salesman, of course you should be trusted.
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@scottalanmiller said in The Motivations of Sales:
@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Are you a salesman, since you stand to benefit?
Are you the one doing the replacement? Normally the customer would just replace it. but if you are selling time for you to do the replacement, then sure, you are always a salesman of your services.
You know a lot of customers hiring IT help that would replace their own drive? I don't.
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I think that a big problem that arises is the concept of trust. People often use the term "trust" to mean "have faith that someone will act in my interest" but nothing in the word implies that. You can trust a brick to... be a brick. You can trust that if you drop it it falls. You can trust that if you stand on it you'll be four inches taller. You can trust that it won't stab you in your sleep. But you can't trust it to be your technology adviser and to tell you when to change your hard drives.
Same with a salesman. You can trust them to be a salesman, to act as their ethical and job obligations expect them to do. As much as you can trust anyone, of course.
Questions around trust with sales are really weird for two basic reasons:
- The thing that people should trust them to do is act as ethical salespeople which is never what they mean, so the use of trust is nonsensical.
- People saying this would never just "trust" some random person to be their advisor, yet ask if salespeople can be trusted as if they are all always either totally trustworthy or not as a group.
Why do we so often single out sales as needing "trust" differently from all other people with whom we interact in life?
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@scottalanmiller said in The Motivations of Sales:
@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Are you unethical?
There is nothing unethical about sales. How does this question ever come up? I'm so confused where people find the idea that there is even a chance for something unethical to exist (in the sales process.) Of course if you assume he's lying about you needing a drive, then that would be unethical. Or if he broke the drive to make you need one.
Because when most people think of sales, they think unethical. When you go to a mechanic and they say you need XYZ replaced, and you really don't. I mean, that happen ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the time. Are they not sales people there?
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@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Because when most people think of sales, they think unethical.
But... WHY? Most people think of unethical with business people, IT folks, doctors, lawyers, etc. Do we talk about them in the same way?
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@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
When you go to a mechanic and they say you need XYZ replaced, and you really don't. I mean, that happen ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the time. Are they not sales people there?
Of course they are. But the issue is that they are liars, not sales people. Your five year old tells you that they didn't break the TV when you saw them hit it with a hammer. By the implication above, instead of calling them a liar, you'd call them a salesperson?
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For me, the confusion comes where there is someone like me. If I am doing side work, I don't care about making the sales ... I am looking to help my client. Do I make money? Sure. But I'd prefer to make the money 100% honest than make it like every other thread on SW where the customer gets taken advantage of.
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@scottalanmiller said in The Motivations of Sales:
@BRRABill said in The Motivations of Sales:
Because when most people think of sales, they think unethical.
But... WHY? Most people think of unethical with business people, IT folks, doctors, lawyers, etc. Do we talk about them in the same way?
No because no one other than you (with the exception of lawyers who everyone hates) thinks any of those other groups are unethical.
