Suggestions on a VPN Solution
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@jrc said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
I had planned on it being used as a switch, the ER-8 was chosen mostly because it seems to be higher performing device than the ERL, and as such would possibly allow for more expansion and flexibility in the future for the main store.
This doesn't make sense like you think that it does.
- The ERL does a million pps, that's equivalent to a $3,000 Cisco enterprise router. You don't need more than that, your little shop can't even think of being able to use that. Paying for more is 100% wasted. There is just no way that you need anywhere near what this can provide. The ERL will handle so many branches, so many users.... you'll be building new buildings all over the place before you need to think of replacing that for speed reasons.
- The ER-X has the switch, not the ER8.
- The ER8 is an eight port router, this is "real gear", don't think of it in Netgear terms. Those are not switch ports.
- Wanting to use the router as a switch conflicts with your goal to overbuy and have so much power. Good practice is to have them be separate. There is a reason that only the entry level ERX includes a switch and the serious router options do not.
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@jrc said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@JaredBusch said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@jrc Seriously, you only want to look at an ERL. Your router should not be your switch also.
So buy a pair of ERL, upgrade the firmware to 1.9.1, run the first run wizard, create VPN tunnel.
I had planned on it being used as a switch, the ER-8 was chosen mostly because it seems to be higher performing device than the ERL, and as such would possibly allow for more expansion and flexibility in the future for the main store. Plus the price on them is not bad, $280 or so.
But I can see your point about just using the ERL and be done with it. So that may be the way we go when it comes down to it.
The ER8 does not have switching capabilities.
If you do need a switch, buy a dumb one. A place like you are discussing has no need for a managed switch. I mean it would be nice, but is completely unnecessary.
You can pick up the Tenda 5 and 8 port gigabit switches for $20.
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The ER8 is more powerful than the ERL the names explain that.
EdgeRouter vs EdgeRouter LITE.
That said you don't need 1million packets per seconds which is what the ERL can do.
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@scottalanmiller said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@jrc said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
I had planned on it being used as a switch, the ER-8 was chosen mostly because it seems to be higher performing device than the ERL, and as such would possibly allow for more expansion and flexibility in the future for the main store.
This doesn't make sense like you think that it does.
- The ERL does a million pps, that's equivalent to a $3,000 Cisco enterprise router. You don't need more than that, your little shop can't even think of being able to use that. Paying for more is 100% wasted. There is just no way that you need anywhere near what this can provide. The ERL will handle so many branches, so many users.... you'll be building new buildings all over the place before you need to think of replacing that for speed reasons.
- The ER-X has the switch, not the ER8.
- The ER8 is an eight port router, this is "real gear", don't think of it in Netgear terms. Those are not switch ports.
- Wanting to use the router as a switch conflicts with your goal to overbuy and have so much power. Good practice is to have them be separate. There is a reason that only the entry level ERX includes a switch and the serious router options do not.
Perfect! That is the explanation I needed. ERL it is, and I had always planned on pairing the ERL with an 8 port gigabit dumb switch at the satellite location.
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@scottalanmiller typing the better answer while I was on the shitter...
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@JaredBusch said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
Do not use the ERX, without a console port, you lose troubleshooting.
While this is true, I don't think it's a real problem. If you have to go for console access, you have to go onsite anyway - then just reset it and restore the settings from your backup. I wouldn't worry about trouble shooting in this cost range.
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@Dashrender said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@JaredBusch said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
Do not use the ERX, without a console port, you lose troubleshooting.
While this is true, I don't think it's a real problem. If you have to go for console access, you have to go onsite anyway - then just reset it and restore the settings from your backup. I wouldn't worry about trouble shooting in this cost range.
The ERX is not something I would use in a business. It works great for a home office but not for a business.
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Why not?
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@Carnival-Boy said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
Why not?
Other than the console port - which I don't personally agree with, I'm also curious why you don't like the ER-X in business? It's half the cost of the ERL.
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They also have an ER-X now that has a SFP port which I thought was interesting.
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But I think the big one is that you don't want your firewall to handle switching. You should have an independent dedicated switch for that task.
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So don't have your ER-X handle switching.
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@coliver said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
They also have an ER-X now that has a SFP port which I thought was interesting.
I'm using one to enable complete separation of our radiology network. Incoming connection to external provider (ethernet) -> ER-X -> (Fiber) to EdgeSwtch -> radiology equipment.
I'm also using an ER-X for my guess network on it's own ISP connection.
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@coliver said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
But I think the big one is that you don't want your firewall to handle switching. You should have an independent dedicated switch for that task.
What's the concern here? The ER-X specifically has a switch chip in it, where the ERL and ER8 don't. Granted I probably wouldn't use the ER-X in a 15+ user environment (though even then that's completely arbitrary and I should only care about bandwidth throughput, not number of users).
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@Dashrender said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
Granted I probably wouldn't use the ER-X in a 15+ user environment
Oh
I only bought one on your recommendation 
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Don't get me wrong, the ER-X is a great device. I have a number of them in the field. But all in home offices. That is its designed use case.
Can you use it elsewhere? Sure.
I specifically do not recommend it in any business office because you will almost always need more switch ports at some point.
Also, the ER-X is less powerful than the ERL over all and it has way less storage. SO if you think you are ever going to tweak your system or anything, then you will quickly run into limitations.
It is a great device for its purpose. That purpose is a home office or very, very tiny satellite office.
But if you think you will ever use a second switch, then don't buy it. Buy the ERL and a switch.
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@JaredBusch said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
Don't get me wrong, the ER-X is a great device. I have a number of them in the field. But all in home offices. That is its designed use case.
Can you use it elsewhere? Sure.
I specifically do not recommend it in any business office because you will almost always need more switch ports at some point.
Also, the ER-X is less powerful than the ERL over all and it has way less storage. SO if you think you are ever going to tweak your system or anything, then you will quickly run into limitations.
It is a great device for its purpose. That purpose is a home office or very, very tiny satellite office.
But if you think you will ever use a second switch, then don't buy it. Buy the ERL and a switch.
See I see what you're listing as planning for the future. Sure you might need more, and when you do buy the bigger think then, and sell the old one for $20, or whatever.
If you need more at the start, absolutely buy the right thing, but if you are tiny, the adage is, buy what you need for today, as tomorrow may never come.
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@Dashrender said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@JaredBusch said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
Don't get me wrong, the ER-X is a great device. I have a number of them in the field. But all in home offices. That is its designed use case.
Can you use it elsewhere? Sure.
I specifically do not recommend it in any business office because you will almost always need more switch ports at some point.
Also, the ER-X is less powerful than the ERL over all and it has way less storage. SO if you think you are ever going to tweak your system or anything, then you will quickly run into limitations.
It is a great device for its purpose. That purpose is a home office or very, very tiny satellite office.
But if you think you will ever use a second switch, then don't buy it. Buy the ERL and a switch.
See I see what you're listing as planning for the future. Sure you might need more, and when you do buy the bigger think then, and sell the old one for $20, or whatever.
If you need more at the start, absolutely buy the right thing, but if you are tiny, the adage is, buy what you need for today, as tomorrow may never come.
Waste of time. You will spend more in man hours for that than the $20 you get for selling. Not to mention the tax notations and accounting.
Also it is not planning for the future. It is planning correctly. Don't use a switch on your damned router.
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@Dashrender said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@coliver said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
But I think the big one is that you don't want your firewall to handle switching. You should have an independent dedicated switch for that task.
What's the concern here? The ER-X specifically has a switch chip in it, where the ERL and ER8 don't. Granted I probably wouldn't use the ER-X in a 15+ user environment (though even then that's completely arbitrary and I should only care about bandwidth throughput, not number of users).
It's just not good practice to mash everything into an "all in one" device. You'd never want an AP in your router, and an AP is just a wireless switch. Keep your devices lean and purposeful.
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@scottalanmiller said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@Dashrender said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
@coliver said in Suggestions on a VPN Solution:
But I think the big one is that you don't want your firewall to handle switching. You should have an independent dedicated switch for that task.
What's the concern here? The ER-X specifically has a switch chip in it, where the ERL and ER8 don't. Granted I probably wouldn't use the ER-X in a 15+ user environment (though even then that's completely arbitrary and I should only care about bandwidth throughput, not number of users).
It's just not good practice to mash everything into an "all in one" device. You'd never want an AP in your router, and an AP is just a wireless switch. Keep your devices lean and purposeful.
Agreed!
I plan to go with the ERL at both sites, the main site already has a separate switch from the Netgear router, so it'll be a drop in replacement there. At the remote site, I will use the ERL with an 8 port gigabit switch and add in a ubiquiti AP for wireless. Keeps it simple and modular.
