Shadow Copies Are Not A Backup Replacement
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@Bill-Kindle Exactly. For long-term backups, etc. get an appliance of some sort. Or, get something that does a real backup. Using shadow copies for backup is like trying to define a word with the word itself in the definition.
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Shadow Copies actually are snapshots. Where they really come in handy is integrated self service file restores from within windows. And they are the underlying technology for nearly all windows backup systems today.
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@scottalanmiller This is true. They work off of VSS or Volume Shadow Service. Using Shadow Copies is not worth much. The processes behind it though are critical.
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@scottalanmiller That's actually almost exactly what I posted in response to a member over at Spiceworks who posed an issue this morning in the Windows Server Forum. They were keeping multiple copies per day, for 2 weeks. They were using the built in WSB but something happened and crashed their server. Turns out, server ran out of space and started throwing VSS errors. I've seen this now 2-3 times in the past week.
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I have seen where the self service restores really do enhance the user experience but it just seems like there are still a lot of admins out there that just don't implement it or implement it correctly.
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Excellent point: shadow copy service is critical to backups, but not reliable solely for any business continuity plan. I think most people understand that, or else your big-dollar backup service providers would be up the creek.
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@Bill-Kindle said:
@scottalanmiller That's actually almost exactly what I posted in response to a member over at Spiceworks who posed an issue this morning in the Windows Server Forum. They were keeping multiple copies per day, for 2 weeks. They were using the built in WSB but something happened and crashed their server. Turns out, server ran out of space and started throwing VSS errors. I've seen this now 2-3 times in the past week.
Sadly very common. Snapshots are hard for people to understand.
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@Bill-Kindle said:
I have seen where the self service restores really do enhance the user experience but it just seems like there are still a lot of admins out there that just don't implement it or implement it correctly.
Requires actually understanding storage.
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@scottalanmiller Agreed.
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People like to think snapshots are magic. They don't want to think about what they are or how they work.
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@scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.
- Apply face to palm.
- Remove face from palm.
- FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.
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I've never actually heard of any environment doing that. I think people talk about how bad it is far more than it actually happens.
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I actually see it mentioned more on Spicewood than I've personally seen. I can count on one hand how many places I've walked into where it was the strategy. Oh man, I remember when I was first I trounced to the concept when 2003 came out. A shop I worked at deployed quite a few sbs servers and it was setup for the customers to do quick restores. I remember sitting with an engineer while he was demonstrating how it worked for us and the customer. I still think it's a useful tool.
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Yes, Spiceworks does seem to have it come up quite often.
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@ajstringham said:
@scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.
- Apply face to palm.
- Remove face from palm.
- FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.
I sort of did this until about 6 years ago - A VMWARE expert who was helping me setup my infrastructure laid it out for me about snapshots. Whenever I talk about them now, I express that my policy is that snapshots are only allowed to live on my network for a few hours, until I am assured that I don't need to immediately go back to it. It is a fall back process, not a backup strategy.
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I call them an "under the hood" component of other processes.
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@Bob-Beatty said:
@ajstringham said:
@scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.
- Apply face to palm.
- Remove face from palm.
- FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.
I sort of did this until about 6 years ago - A VMWARE expert who was helping me setup my infrastructure laid it out for me about snapshots. Whenever I talk about them now, I express that my policy is that snapshots are only allowed to live on my network for a few hours, until I am assured that I don't need to immediately go back to it. It is a fall back process, not a backup strategy.
That's exactly right. I've been told to never snapshot a DC though if it's in a dual+ DC environment. Causes split-brain issues. Makes sense.
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@scottalanmiller Exactly. An "under-the-hood" component...
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@ajstringham said:
@Bob-Beatty said:
@ajstringham said:
@scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.
- Apply face to palm.
- Remove face from palm.
- FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.
I sort of did this until about 6 years ago - A VMWARE expert who was helping me setup my infrastructure laid it out for me about snapshots. Whenever I talk about them now, I express that my policy is that snapshots are only allowed to live on my network for a few hours, until I am assured that I don't need to immediately go back to it. It is a fall back process, not a backup strategy.
That's exactly right. I've been told to never snapshot a DC though if it's in a dual+ DC environment. Causes split-brain issues. Makes sense.
People say this about DCs but it applies to any database or HA system.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@ajstringham said:
@Bob-Beatty said:
@ajstringham said:
@scottalanmiller Yup. Walking into an environment and hearing someone say that snapshots are their backup strategy...here's what you do.
- Apply face to palm.
- Remove face from palm.
- FIRMLY apply palm to other person's face. Repeat until sense has been enabled.
I sort of did this until about 6 years ago - A VMWARE expert who was helping me setup my infrastructure laid it out for me about snapshots. Whenever I talk about them now, I express that my policy is that snapshots are only allowed to live on my network for a few hours, until I am assured that I don't need to immediately go back to it. It is a fall back process, not a backup strategy.
That's exactly right. I've been told to never snapshot a DC though if it's in a dual+ DC environment. Causes split-brain issues. Makes sense.
People say this about DCs but it applies to any database or HA system.
That would be true and make sense. Anything that has references between points or failovers this would be a bad thing to do to.
