old MSP won't give up domain name
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@Mike-Davis said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
But in the past, you were dealing with the owners of the domain, right?
In the past it was pretty much the exact same thing where the email address was inaccessable, but the address and everything matched the true business owner. The last time it happened, it was a non for profit where someone registered the domain name with an @aol.com address. Years later they wanted to move to google apps and couldn't access the domain since the guy forgot the password and they had no way to do the password reset since the email address didn't exist anymore. Letter on company letterhead faxed to the registrar did the trick.
In that case, though, it was a third party email (AOL) and not a clear ownership and not going to an active, owned email account. So while I see the similarity, I don't see it as close enough to be applicable here. That's a lost email account situation where the email was a non-identifiable company,
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@Mike-Davis said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
That's not an IT job, that's a business consultant job. You are there because they are not managing their businesses correctly. So your role isn't MSP here, it's "doing the CEO's job".
OK, so I'm a CEO consultant. I don't care because I help people and make a living at it by knowing stuff they don't. My business is doing very well because there a plenty of guys out there they tell owners things like "that's not IT's job" and leave the owner hanging.
Please encourage IT guys to do this. It's great for my business.
It is not IT's job. So telling the truth is what should happen. You should offer advice because you're more skilled than IT , But it is still not an IT job.
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@Mike-Davis said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Grey said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
It's surprising to me that the registrar didn't give up the domain, really. Was the letter to reclaim sent on letterhead? Is this a reputable registrar?
That's the process I have been through in the past. Letter on company letterhead. The registrar is bluehost.com
https://hostingfacts.com/hosting-reviews/bluehost/
If the MSP was being paid as much as you said in the other thread, they were making serious bank and doing fuck all.
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@JaredBusch said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Mike-Davis said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
That's not an IT job, that's a business consultant job. You are there because they are not managing their businesses correctly. So your role isn't MSP here, it's "doing the CEO's job".
OK, so I'm a CEO consultant. I don't care because I help people and make a living at it by knowing stuff they don't. My business is doing very well because there a plenty of guys out there they tell owners things like "that's not IT's job" and leave the owner hanging.
Please encourage IT guys to do this. It's great for my business.
It is not IT's job. So telling the truth is what should happen. You should offer advice because you're more skilled than IT , But it is still not an IT job.
Right, the most important thing that the CEO can know right now is that you are powerless and he needs an attorney.
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@Grey said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Mike-Davis said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Grey said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
It's surprising to me that the registrar didn't give up the domain, really. Was the letter to reclaim sent on letterhead? Is this a reputable registrar?
That's the process I have been through in the past. Letter on company letterhead. The registrar is bluehost.com
https://hostingfacts.com/hosting-reviews/bluehost/
If the MSP was being paid as much as you said in the other thread, they were making serious bank and doing fuck all.
Which is what it sounds like his impression of the CEO's skills would lead to. Although, let's be fair, this conversation has costs hundreds of dollars of time from IT pros alone. If the MSP spent 15 minutes a year dealing with that account, they'd be losing money.
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@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
Not actually stealing domain name, at least not yet since it was renewed through old msp recently. Still unacceptable. Still dont know why the owner is handing this off. Probably because he cant do anything for himself and is used to having other people wipe his own ass. My point about disrupting them is still valid. The owner should be handling this. Not an IT guy. It really sounds like the owner doesnt actually give a shit, or not enough to do something himself. Which means @Mike-Davis shouldnt either, but probably does because of professional pride.
This is definitely a glass tower type is position you have. Not saying it's entirely wrong, but geez, how many people know that they should maintain their own domain name registration? If you're not IT, probably not many.
Here's where I sit back and allow Scott to provide a list of things that fall through the cracks just like this.
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@Mike-Davis I offer advice to clients all the time that is not directly IT related. Because they ask me something thinking it is IT related, I look at it, say nope, but because I do have this knowledge this is a good recommended course of action. Contact a professional for that course of action.
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@Mike-Davis said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
But in the past, you were dealing with the owners of the domain, right?
In the past it was pretty much the exact same thing where the email address was inaccessable, but the address and everything matched the true business owner. The last time it happened, it was a non for profit where someone registered the domain name with an @aol.com address. Years later they wanted to move to google apps and couldn't access the domain since the guy forgot the password and they had no way to do the password reset since the email address didn't exist anymore. Letter on company letterhead faxed to the registrar did the trick.
yep I've done this.
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@Dashrender Im not saying the ceo should be handling the registration now and in the future. I am simply saying that since the old msp is an asshole and refuses to cooperate with old company and mike-davis, the owner needs to step in and do something other than tell the new IT guy to fix it.
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@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender Im not saying the ceo should be handling the registration now and in the future. I am simply saying that since the old msp is an asshole and refuses to cooperate with old company and mike-davis, the owner needs to step in and do something other than tell the new IT guy to fix it.
Yeah. Just avoiding doing a job that no one but he can do.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
Not actually stealing domain name, at least not yet since it was renewed through old msp recently. Still unacceptable. Still dont know why the owner is handing this off. Probably because he cant do anything for himself and is used to having other people wipe his own ass. My point about disrupting them is still valid. The owner should be handling this. Not an IT guy. It really sounds like the owner doesnt actually give a shit, or not enough to do something himself. Which means @Mike-Davis shouldnt either, but probably does because of professional pride.
This is definitely a glass tower type is position you have. Not saying it's entirely wrong, but geez, how many people know that they should maintain their own domain name registration? If you're not IT, probably not many.
Here's where I sit back and allow Scott to provide a list of things that fall through the cracks just like this.
of courseThis isn't anything IT. How many people know to get a real estate agent and a deed when buying physical property? If we were having this same discussion about other items of ownership we'd never have this "socially accepted incompetence" idea. What makes this singular non-technical item unique? Why would the CEO think that something like a real estate deed or his incorporation papers should be handled by a random outsourced?
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender Im not saying the ceo should be handling the registration now and in the future. I am simply saying that since the old msp is an asshole and refuses to cooperate with old company and mike-davis, the owner needs to step in and do something other than tell the new IT guy to fix it.
Yeah. Just avoiding doing a job that no one but he can do.
The more and more we talk about things - it seems like there is less and less that anyone other than the CEO can do - I'm talking about anything short of grunt work.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender Im not saying the ceo should be handling the registration now and in the future. I am simply saying that since the old msp is an asshole and refuses to cooperate with old company and mike-davis, the owner needs to step in and do something other than tell the new IT guy to fix it.
Yeah. Just avoiding doing a job that no one but he can do.
The more and more we talk about things - it seems like there is less and less that anyone other than the CEO can do - I'm talking about anything short of grunt work.
What's worse is that it was trying to pass the buck to his MSP that got the CEO into this situation in the first place. And his response.... to directly repeat the same mistake. He's clearly not learning from his mistakes.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
Not actually stealing domain name, at least not yet since it was renewed through old msp recently. Still unacceptable. Still dont know why the owner is handing this off. Probably because he cant do anything for himself and is used to having other people wipe his own ass. My point about disrupting them is still valid. The owner should be handling this. Not an IT guy. It really sounds like the owner doesnt actually give a shit, or not enough to do something himself. Which means @Mike-Davis shouldnt either, but probably does because of professional pride.
This is definitely a glass tower type is position you have. Not saying it's entirely wrong, but geez, how many people know that they should maintain their own domain name registration? If you're not IT, probably not many.
Here's where I sit back and allow Scott to provide a list of things that fall through the cracks just like this.
of courseThis isn't anything IT. How many people know to get a real estate agent and a deed when buying physical property? If we were having this same discussion about other items of ownership we'd never have this "socially accepted incompetence" idea. What makes this singular non-technical item unique? Why would the CEO think that something like a real estate deed or his incorporation papers should be handled by a random outsourced?
What's random about it? The use of a domain name is entirely IT. Notice I said use. I'm with Mike when I say that I wouldn't expect any business manager to know that they are the ones who should hold the registrar information. Because of it's technical nature - it appears that it belongs in the hands of IT - I see now through this conversation (and past ones) why it's not, but why should they see it your way? The CEO's job is to decide that they need one, and what it will be, the acquisition seems understandable to be the job of IT.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender Im not saying the ceo should be handling the registration now and in the future. I am simply saying that since the old msp is an asshole and refuses to cooperate with old company and mike-davis, the owner needs to step in and do something other than tell the new IT guy to fix it.
Yeah. Just avoiding doing a job that no one but he can do.
The more and more we talk about things - it seems like there is less and less that anyone other than the CEO can do - I'm talking about anything short of grunt work.
What's worse is that it was trying to pass the buck to his MSP that got the CEO into this situation in the first place. And his response.... to directly repeat the same mistake. He's clearly not learning from his mistakes.
Well, seeing the situation he was in, yeah he should have wanted that information directly himself from that point. That I agree with.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
Not actually stealing domain name, at least not yet since it was renewed through old msp recently. Still unacceptable. Still dont know why the owner is handing this off. Probably because he cant do anything for himself and is used to having other people wipe his own ass. My point about disrupting them is still valid. The owner should be handling this. Not an IT guy. It really sounds like the owner doesnt actually give a shit, or not enough to do something himself. Which means @Mike-Davis shouldnt either, but probably does because of professional pride.
This is definitely a glass tower type is position you have. Not saying it's entirely wrong, but geez, how many people know that they should maintain their own domain name registration? If you're not IT, probably not many.
Here's where I sit back and allow Scott to provide a list of things that fall through the cracks just like this.
of courseThis isn't anything IT. How many people know to get a real estate agent and a deed when buying physical property? If we were having this same discussion about other items of ownership we'd never have this "socially accepted incompetence" idea. What makes this singular non-technical item unique? Why would the CEO think that something like a real estate deed or his incorporation papers should be handled by a random outsourced?
What's random about it? The use of a domain name is entirely IT. Notice I said use. I'm with Mike when I say that I wouldn't expect any business manager to know that they are the ones who should hold the registrar information. Because of it's technical nature - it appears that it belongs in the hands of IT - I see now through this conversation (and past ones) why it's not, but why should they see it your way? The CEO's job is to decide that they need one, and what it will be, the acquisition seems understandable to be the job of IT.
Of course purchasing and maintaining a domain name is the job of the IT department. But it is not the IT department's job to try to recover something that they did not control in the first place. A proper way this should've been handled was it would've been registered in the company name to a company email address The fact that this was signed off not registered to the company is a failure of whoever signed it off in this case the CEO
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Actually Scott disagreed with you above... He said it was the CEO or business manager job to acquire it. They then would have the credentials to recover if needed.
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The CEO isn't trying to "pass the buck". I told him what I needed, did my best to explain the difference between a website and a domain, etc. Then I helped him write an email to the old MSP saying he would like the Auth Code so he can transfer the domain. At that point the old MSP stopped communicating. The CEO asked what to do next, so I helped him write an email to bluehost.
If you don't call an IT guy to do a whois lookup so you can find out where your domain is registered, who do you call?
At this point I told him that from bluehost's last response it looks like he might have to contact his laywer.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
Actually Scott disagreed with you above... He said it was the CEO or business manager job to acquire it. They then would have the credentials to recover if needed.
No Scott is saying the CEO specific to this instance. Because for this instance the business is the CEO there is nobody else.
The CEO outsourced IT. This was actually a good choice. The CEO did not delegate somebody to manage and verify their outsourced work. This was a bad choice.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@Dashrender said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
@momurda said in old MSP won't give up domain name:
Not actually stealing domain name, at least not yet since it was renewed through old msp recently. Still unacceptable. Still dont know why the owner is handing this off. Probably because he cant do anything for himself and is used to having other people wipe his own ass. My point about disrupting them is still valid. The owner should be handling this. Not an IT guy. It really sounds like the owner doesnt actually give a shit, or not enough to do something himself. Which means @Mike-Davis shouldnt either, but probably does because of professional pride.
This is definitely a glass tower type is position you have. Not saying it's entirely wrong, but geez, how many people know that they should maintain their own domain name registration? If you're not IT, probably not many.
Here's where I sit back and allow Scott to provide a list of things that fall through the cracks just like this.
of courseThis isn't anything IT. How many people know to get a real estate agent and a deed when buying physical property? If we were having this same discussion about other items of ownership we'd never have this "socially accepted incompetence" idea. What makes this singular non-technical item unique? Why would the CEO think that something like a real estate deed or his incorporation papers should be handled by a random outsourced?
What's random about it? The use of a domain name is entirely IT. Notice I said use. I'm with Mike when I say that I wouldn't expect any business manager to know that they are the ones who should hold the registrar information. Because of it's technical nature - it appears that it belongs in the hands of IT - I see now through this conversation (and past ones) why it's not, but why should they see it your way? The CEO's job is to decide that they need one, and what it will be, the acquisition seems understandable to be the job of IT.
Use of a building is completely maintenance. But the maintenance people don't get paid to buy your real estate. It's not technical in nature. It's an identity purchase. Setting the dns after you buy it now that is technical. But not buying a name. Acquisition of a domain should never go to IT and you can see here exactly why.
