Burned by Eschewing Best Practices
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In this situation being bad or great - does it really matter when it's always second place? Fine it's never the winner - can we just move on now?
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I think @DustinB3403 and @scottalanmiller 's willpower is impressive
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Let's have a quick English lesson:
Statement that is confusing @DustinB3403 : "... FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else."
What this statement says is:
- FreeBSD is always better than FreeNAS.
- FreeNAS is always worse than FreeBSD.
- FreeNAS is better (in the context of storage which is the context of the statement) than most products.
- FreeBSD is better than most storage products by logical extension of being better than FreeNAS.
What this statement doesn't say is endless:
- The price of milk.
- The age of the universe.
- If God is a man or a woman.
- If FreeBSD is the best product ever, or always.
- Which products are not as good as FreeBSD or FreeNAS.
- When different products are better or worse.
- That FreeBSD or FreeNAS is bad.
- That cars should always be painted blue
and on and on...
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
I respect you because I ask the question, you should also respect that, and understand how the rest of the world is likely looking at what is written down.
If you are claiming that the world is illiterate, then that's their problem. This is absolutely clear, simple English and claiming that it says something that it does not is willful lying.
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@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
But you provide the ambiguity of the statement.
It is not actually ambiguous either. You have a misunderstanding of what ambiguity is. It was a very clear statement with a single meaning. It only seems ambiguous to you because you have predetermined that there is another meaning that you yourself created and if I say something that doesn't support what you want me to say, you assume that I am using double speak or word trickery. I am not. My statement is clear, concise and accurate. It doesn't leave any ambiguity or room for interpretation. You can claim that it is wrong, but you can't claim that it is not clear.
Clear it may be, FreeNAS is never as good a choice as FreeBSD. But by ending the statement with "better compared to nearly everything else" is completely open ended.
It very easily sounds like "FreeBSD is better than (literally everything else)
How is that unclear? Re-read your statement. Ask anyone if they disagree with my understanding of this statement.
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
I'd disagree, its open for me to willfully determine what everything else is when you leave a statement open.
It's not open for disagreement. There is no grey area here in the least. Not even slightly.
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
But you provide the ambiguity of the statement.
It is not actually ambiguous either. You have a misunderstanding of what ambiguity is. It was a very clear statement with a single meaning. It only seems ambiguous to you because you have predetermined that there is another meaning that you yourself created and if I say something that doesn't support what you want me to say, you assume that I am using double speak or word trickery. I am not. My statement is clear, concise and accurate. It doesn't leave any ambiguity or room for interpretation. You can claim that it is wrong, but you can't claim that it is not clear.
Clear it may be, FreeNAS is never as good a choice as FreeBSD. But by ending the statement with "better compared to nearly everything else" is completely open ended.
It very easily sounds like "FreeBSD is better than (literally everything else)
So you now see how 51% turning into 100% was a good example of how people misunderstand the most basic statements? Clearly there is zero ground for saying that "most" means "always". The word "most" exists in the language so that you would never have to be confused in this way by any statement like this.
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
How is that unclear? Re-read your statement. Ask anyone if they disagree with my understanding of this statement.
This is basic English literacy. You misunderstood the word most and think it means always. They are not the same word.
If you think "most" means "all" there is no way to have a discussion like this. I have no capacity to help you. But rest assured the issue is not on my end. The statement was completely accurate and your beliefs about it are completely incorrect, both technically and linguistically.
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@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
Let's have a quick English lesson:
Statement that is confusing @DustinB3403 : "... FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else."
What this statement says is:
- FreeBSD is always better than FreeNAS.
- FreeNAS is always worse than FreeBSD.
- FreeNAS is better (in the context of storage which is the context of the statement) than most products.
- FreeBSD is better than most storage products by logical extension of being better than FreeNAS.
What this statement doesn't say is endless:
- The price of milk.
- The age of the universe.
- If God is a man or a woman.
- If FreeBSD is the best product ever, or always.
- Which products are not as good as FreeBSD or FreeNAS.
- When different products are better or worse.
- That FreeBSD or FreeNAS is bad.
- That cars should always be painted blue
and on and on...
The statement says nothing of this.
The exact wording YOU used was FreeNAS is never as good as FreeBSD, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
And that if you can't use FreeBSD, that you should use FreeNAS before looking at ANY other options!
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
The exact wording YOU used was FreeBSD is never as good as FreeNAS, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
This sums up the issue. You state why I am right then state the opposite.
You can't truly believe that "nearly everything else" is "everything else."
So when people say that they are "nearly to your house", you think that they are literally already in your house? When someone says that they are nearly asleep you believe that they are literally asleep and telling you that in their sleep? When you nearly lose an eye, you believe that their eye is actually gone? When you nearly get fired, you believe that you were actually fired?
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This wouldn't be such a problem if it were not for issues like this turning into wild claims of me saying things that I never said. This is why people avoid quoting me, because I don't say the things that they want me to have said. I nearly say them, apparently, and so people nearly quote me and nearly get it right, except of the key words that totally change the meanings of the statement.
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@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
The exact wording YOU used was FreeBSD is never as good as FreeNAS, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
This sums up the issue. You state why I am right then state the opposite.
You can't truly believe that "nearly everything else" is "everything else."
So when people say that they are "nearly to your house", you think that they are literally already in your house? When someone says that they are nearly asleep you believe that they are literally asleep and telling you that in their sleep? When you nearly lose an eye, you believe that their eye is actually gone? When you nearly get fired, you believe that you were actually fired?
No, but look at your statement.
You leave it to the reader to determine what not only "nearly" means for the conversation at hand, but what what everything else is.
Hear let me read it back to you, to show I understand your statement.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but FreeNAS is better compared to nearly everything else.
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
The exact wording YOU used was FreeBSD is never as good as FreeNAS, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
This sums up the issue. You state why I am right then state the opposite.
You can't truly believe that "nearly everything else" is "everything else."
So when people say that they are "nearly to your house", you think that they are literally already in your house? When someone says that they are nearly asleep you believe that they are literally asleep and telling you that in their sleep? When you nearly lose an eye, you believe that their eye is actually gone? When you nearly get fired, you believe that you were actually fired?
No, but look at your statement.
You leave it to the reader to determine what not only "nearly" means for the conversation at hand, but what what everything else is.
Hear let me read it back to you, to show I understand your statement.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but FreeNAS is better compared to nearly everything else.
Right, nearly everything else. Not everything, just most things. Clearly not saying what you keep thinking that it said. In no way, none, does it suggest or imply "everything." The word "nearly" is there to ensure that no one could possible make that mistake.
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@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
The exact wording YOU used was FreeBSD is never as good as FreeNAS, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
This sums up the issue. You state why I am right then state the opposite.
You can't truly believe that "nearly everything else" is "everything else."
So when people say that they are "nearly to your house", you think that they are literally already in your house? When someone says that they are nearly asleep you believe that they are literally asleep and telling you that in their sleep? When you nearly lose an eye, you believe that their eye is actually gone? When you nearly get fired, you believe that you were actually fired?
No, but look at your statement.
You leave it to the reader to determine what not only "nearly" means for the conversation at hand, but what what everything else is.
Hear let me read it back to you, to show I understand your statement.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but FreeNAS is better compared to nearly everything else.
Right, nearly everything else. Not everything, just most things. Clearly not saying what you keep thinking that it said. In no way, none, does it suggest or imply "everything." The word "nearly" is there to ensure that no one could possible make that mistake.
I wonder if @DustinB3403 might be looking for a scope of some times... "...nearly everything else..."
Better than a bath? ... a car wash? a new laptop... ? (okay, obviously I'm stretching it here, but my point is made)... what are you comparing FreeNAS (and by Extension FreeBSD to) ?
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@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
The exact wording YOU used was FreeBSD is never as good as FreeNAS, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
This sums up the issue. You state why I am right then state the opposite.
You can't truly believe that "nearly everything else" is "everything else."
So when people say that they are "nearly to your house", you think that they are literally already in your house? When someone says that they are nearly asleep you believe that they are literally asleep and telling you that in their sleep? When you nearly lose an eye, you believe that their eye is actually gone? When you nearly get fired, you believe that you were actually fired?
No, but look at your statement.
You leave it to the reader to determine what not only "nearly" means for the conversation at hand, but what what everything else is.
Hear let me read it back to you, to show I understand your statement.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but FreeNAS is better compared to nearly everything else.
Right, nearly everything else. Not everything, just most things. Clearly not saying what you keep thinking that it said. In no way, none, does it suggest or imply "everything." The word "nearly" is there to ensure that no one could possible make that mistake.
But it is open to say that FreeNAS is better then say Synology, or even the most high end NAS's ever.
You need to provide exact context in these statements or your words will be used against you. And people will make calls based on things you've said, but left open ended.
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@dafyre said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
The exact wording YOU used was FreeBSD is never as good as FreeNAS, but is nearly always better than everything else.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but better compared to nearly everything else.
Read that statement. You are literally saying that FreeNAS is better than everything except for FreeBSD!
This sums up the issue. You state why I am right then state the opposite.
You can't truly believe that "nearly everything else" is "everything else."
So when people say that they are "nearly to your house", you think that they are literally already in your house? When someone says that they are nearly asleep you believe that they are literally asleep and telling you that in their sleep? When you nearly lose an eye, you believe that their eye is actually gone? When you nearly get fired, you believe that you were actually fired?
No, but look at your statement.
You leave it to the reader to determine what not only "nearly" means for the conversation at hand, but what what everything else is.
Hear let me read it back to you, to show I understand your statement.
FreeNAS is worse compared to FreeBSD, but FreeNAS is better compared to nearly everything else.
Right, nearly everything else. Not everything, just most things. Clearly not saying what you keep thinking that it said. In no way, none, does it suggest or imply "everything." The word "nearly" is there to ensure that no one could possible make that mistake.
I wonder if @DustinB3403 might be looking for a scope of some times... "...nearly everything else..."
Better than a bath? ... a car wash? a new laptop... ? (okay, obviously I'm stretching it here, but my point is made)... what are you comparing FreeNAS (and by Extension FreeBSD to) ?
Scope might be useful, but if there is a question of scope, you ask. You can't just make up that a lack of defined scope "means" something that isn't said.
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
But it is open to say that FreeNAS is better then say Synology, or even the most high end NAS's ever.
You need to provide exact context in these statements or your words will be used against you. And people will make calls based on things you've said, but left open ended.
It's open to asking. But the statement that FreeNAS is better than Synology specifically was not made and there is no room, none, for claiming that it was. None. Nada. Not even kind of. Is it better? Maybe. Was it said? In no way whatsoever.
You are mistaking the possibility for things to be better or worse than FreeNAS for thinking that they factually are.
Let's reverse it. You claim that by not stating that Synology is NOT better, that it must be worse. Obviously that is insane, what if a new product comes out that I didn't have access to to list, does that automatically make it worse by the nature of my not having mentioned it in the past? Clearly not, that's nutty.
Now let's say that since I said FreeNAS was "nearly" the best option, that since that, too, is open ended to you, by that logic I have also said that Synology "must be better" than FreeNAS.
See how insane that is? The logic that you use to say that the open ended nature lets you say anything is worse, also lets you say that everything is better. Since you have taken a lack of explicit list to create an implicit list that you make up, there is no end to what you can claim and anything in one direction is equally in the other. You've created a paradox through the misunderstanding of the language.
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If Johnny, nearly won the race it does not tell you who won and who lost, only that more people were slower than him than were faster, assuming four or more people are in the race.
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@scottalanmiller said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
But it is open to say that FreeNAS is better then say Synology, or even the most high end NAS's ever.
You need to provide exact context in these statements or your words will be used against you. And people will make calls based on things you've said, but left open ended.
It's open to asking. But the statement that FreeNAS is better than Synology specifically was not made and there is no room, none, for claiming that it was. None. Nada. Not even kind of. Is it better? Maybe. Was it said? In no way whatsoever.
You are mistaking the possibility for things to be better or worse than FreeNAS for thinking that they factually are.
Let's reverse it. You claim that by not stating that Synology is NOT better, that it must be worse. Obviously that is insane, what if a new product comes out that I didn't have access to to list, does that automatically make it worse by the nature of my not having mentioned it in the past? Clearly not, that's nutty.
Now let's say that since I said FreeNAS was "nearly" the best option, that since that, too, is open ended to you, by that logic I have also said that Synology "must be better" than FreeNAS.
See how insane that is? The logic that you use to say that the open ended nature lets you say anything is worse, also lets you say that everything is better. Since you have taken a lack of explicit list to create an implicit list that you make up, there is no end to what you can claim and anything in one direction is equally in the other. You've created a paradox through the misunderstanding of the language.
Scott my argument with your statement is you left it open ended, to interpretation or question. Unless someone goes out of their way to specifically ask what "everything else is" then they are right to assume that FreeBSD is the best, FreeNAS is second best and everything else can suck eggs.
There is no confusion about what you've typed. None. This is your typing matter that is the issue.
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@DustinB3403 said in Burned by Eschewing Best Practices:
Scott my argument with your statement is you left it open ended, to interpretation or question.
Right, and your argument is totally wrong. It's not open to interpretation. You are confused as to how English works and your entire point is invalid. Open does not mean you get to change what was said to something else. You need to step back and look at the English. This is not a technical thing, this is not an ambiguity thing, this is very, very basic English and exactly like I showed in my examples. You want to make what I said wrong so badly that you're not even making sense.
