Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected
-
No one is saying that the repos are the end all of everything or that outside repos are not to be used. But there IS an order of precedence and we are dealing with someone "learning system management basics" and he's struggling with understanding what Linux is and how you install software. Throwing those things at him would be unhelpful and counterproductive. He just needs to install what is available in the OS and he's done. It will all be managed for him. He has whole threads of issues causes simply by not having understood that software is included with the OS, that there are repos, or that things actually will run on Linux.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
Ansible does not
It most certainly does.
Not the current Ansible that the discussion was about. Chrome is up to date in the repo, Ansible was not.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
Ansible does not
It most certainly does.
Not the current Ansible that the discussion was about. Chrome is up to date in the repo, Ansible was not.
Again, because the Chrome repo is an external repo. EPEL is an external repo also. No different.
-
If Ansible has an up to date repo for RHEL/CentOS, that is new since the time of that thread.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
Ansible does not
It most certainly does.
Not the current Ansible that the discussion was about. Chrome is up to date in the repo, Ansible was not.
Again, because the Chrome repo is an external repo. EPEL is an external repo also. No different.
EPEL is not external, it's maintained by Red Hat. It's official, just extended. It's part of Red Hat's Fedora project. If you are a paying RHEL customer, support for EPEL packages is available as well. It's not just official, it's available for extended support, too. Very internal.
But besides that, I don't know what you are saying. Ansible has no repo anywhere that maintains current Ansible for RHEL (or didn't.) Chrome does. So, I can't stress this enough, unrelated. One just has zero to do with the other.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You are mixing things. What THIS discussion about is a Linux newbie who just needs some very basic OS included packages selected (plus maybe Chrome, we aren't sure) that should be from an added repo. There is no reason to be considering building anything or getting individual packages or using commands like DPKG. You are then referencing advanced server configuration stuff for experts that has the sole purpose of building something that is not in the repos for a totally different purpose. The two are not related.
What this and his other threads are about is just getting a laptop up and running so that he can program Java. He was not aware of repos, how Linux works, when packages are appropriate, that software even existed for Linux, etc. We are trying to get him up and running the right way, not trying to confuse him with loads of "well you COULD do it this way." He doesn't need Wine, we are pretty sure he doesn't need Chrome, he doesn't need to download lots of packages, they are all in the OS already.
Doesn't happen often, but I'm with @scottalanmiller here. The other thread was about brand new software that doesn't yet exist in the official (or other) repos. There was another thread like this, about installing Snipe-IT.
Here, we're talking about a newbie trying to get things running... in a 12-gauge shotgun way of approaching things.
PS @Lakshmana: Don't get me wrong, we all want to help you, but you are sometimes trying to get straight through the wall instead of using the door
-
Here is the easy way to demonstrate this....
Want Chrome installed and up to date as the vendor recommends, can you use their repo: Yes
Want the same thing from Ansible, can you use any repo: No (at least at the time of the article) -
The Ansible 2 article that you references was written explicitly because Ansible did not have the kind of support that Chrome does for an official repo. Had it, the article would not exist. The very fact that the article exists shows that the two are different.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
nsible has no repo anywhere that maintains current Ansible for RHEL (or didn't.) Chrome does. So, I can't stress this enough, unrelated. One just has zero to do with the other.
You're cloning from GitHub for current. That's like using the dev release of Chrome. The release of Chrome in the repo is the official stable release. The release of Ansible in the repos for RHEL are the official stable release. It's not the same thing at all.
-
@thwr said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You are mixing things. What THIS discussion about is a Linux newbie who just needs some very basic OS included packages selected (plus maybe Chrome, we aren't sure) that should be from an added repo. There is no reason to be considering building anything or getting individual packages or using commands like DPKG. You are then referencing advanced server configuration stuff for experts that has the sole purpose of building something that is not in the repos for a totally different purpose. The two are not related.
What this and his other threads are about is just getting a laptop up and running so that he can program Java. He was not aware of repos, how Linux works, when packages are appropriate, that software even existed for Linux, etc. We are trying to get him up and running the right way, not trying to confuse him with loads of "well you COULD do it this way." He doesn't need Wine, we are pretty sure he doesn't need Chrome, he doesn't need to download lots of packages, they are all in the OS already.
Doesn't happen often, but I'm with @scottalanmiller here. The other thread was about brand new software that doesn't yet exist in the official (or other) repos. There was another thread like this, about installing Snipe-IT.
Here, we're talking about a newbie trying to get things running... in a 12-gauge shotgun way of approaching things.
PS @Lakshmana: Don't get me wrong, we all want to help you, but you are sometimes trying to get straight through the wall instead of using the door
I didn't see the SnipeIT one. I mean I whole heartedly agree that you should use the repos. But there are times when you can't. Or it's just as easy to install the package and it does the repo adding, like with Chrome, RPMFusion, EPEL, etc.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You're cloning from GitHub for current. That's like using the dev release of Chrome. The release of Chrome in the repo is the official stable release. The release of Ansible in the repos for RHEL are the official stable release. It's not the same thing at all.
That's incorrect. Ansible 2 was the official release at that time. Cloning from GIT is how Ansible releases their production release. You are totally misunderstanding how this works in this case. What RH puts in the repos is in no way reflective of what is the production release from Ansible (or any other product) and this should be very widely understood. The RH repos are almost never current on anything, this is in fact famously the biggest complaint of RH, just how far behind current release their repos are (but it is part of their policy.)
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@thwr said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You are mixing things. What THIS discussion about is a Linux newbie who just needs some very basic OS included packages selected (plus maybe Chrome, we aren't sure) that should be from an added repo. There is no reason to be considering building anything or getting individual packages or using commands like DPKG. You are then referencing advanced server configuration stuff for experts that has the sole purpose of building something that is not in the repos for a totally different purpose. The two are not related.
What this and his other threads are about is just getting a laptop up and running so that he can program Java. He was not aware of repos, how Linux works, when packages are appropriate, that software even existed for Linux, etc. We are trying to get him up and running the right way, not trying to confuse him with loads of "well you COULD do it this way." He doesn't need Wine, we are pretty sure he doesn't need Chrome, he doesn't need to download lots of packages, they are all in the OS already.
Doesn't happen often, but I'm with @scottalanmiller here. The other thread was about brand new software that doesn't yet exist in the official (or other) repos. There was another thread like this, about installing Snipe-IT.
Here, we're talking about a newbie trying to get things running... in a 12-gauge shotgun way of approaching things.
PS @Lakshmana: Don't get me wrong, we all want to help you, but you are sometimes trying to get straight through the wall instead of using the door
I didn't see the SnipeIT one. I mean I whole heartedly agree that you should use the repos. But there are times when you can't. Or it's just as easy to install the package and it does the repo adding, like with Chrome, RPMFusion, EPEL, etc.
Sure, there are times. And we discussed that with @Lakshmana and told him not to use plain packages (or even a git clone) as keeping that up to date is next to impossible for someone who is new to the whole Linux/BSD ecosystem. Even more so when we are talking about a browser, which is a huge attack vector and should be kept updated all the time.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@thwr said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You are mixing things. What THIS discussion about is a Linux newbie who just needs some very basic OS included packages selected (plus maybe Chrome, we aren't sure) that should be from an added repo. There is no reason to be considering building anything or getting individual packages or using commands like DPKG. You are then referencing advanced server configuration stuff for experts that has the sole purpose of building something that is not in the repos for a totally different purpose. The two are not related.
What this and his other threads are about is just getting a laptop up and running so that he can program Java. He was not aware of repos, how Linux works, when packages are appropriate, that software even existed for Linux, etc. We are trying to get him up and running the right way, not trying to confuse him with loads of "well you COULD do it this way." He doesn't need Wine, we are pretty sure he doesn't need Chrome, he doesn't need to download lots of packages, they are all in the OS already.
Doesn't happen often, but I'm with @scottalanmiller here. The other thread was about brand new software that doesn't yet exist in the official (or other) repos. There was another thread like this, about installing Snipe-IT.
Here, we're talking about a newbie trying to get things running... in a 12-gauge shotgun way of approaching things.
PS @Lakshmana: Don't get me wrong, we all want to help you, but you are sometimes trying to get straight through the wall instead of using the door
I didn't see the SnipeIT one. I mean I whole heartedly agree that you should use the repos. But there are times when you can't. Or it's just as easy to install the package and it does the repo adding, like with Chrome, RPMFusion, EPEL, etc.
Right. And what we've been saying to @Lakshmana is that everything he has been doing and is looking to do should be handled only via the repos. He's not looking to do anything that makes any sense to approach in any other way.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You're cloning from GitHub for current.
Current is current, not testing. Lots of software using GIT for deployments these days. NodeBB, for example. There is no repos except for GIT for NodeBB. And GIT is a repo system. Not as nice as YUM or APT, but it is a repo system. It's an advanced one, for sure, and not for people to learn on. But it's more and more common for software to officially be deployed via GIT and it doesn't imply that the versions are not production ready.
The Ansible version in the example was the recommended deployment process right from Ansible's documentation.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You're cloning from GitHub for current. That's like using the dev release of Chrome. The release of Chrome in the repo is the official stable release. The release of Ansible in the repos for RHEL are the official stable release. It's not the same thing at all.
That's incorrect. Ansible 2 was the official release at that time. Cloning from GIT is how Ansible releases their production release. You are totally misunderstanding how this works in this case. What RH puts in the repos is in no way reflective of what is the production release from Ansible (or any other product) and this should be very widely understood. The RH repos are almost never current on anything, this is in fact famously the biggest complaint of RH, just how far behind current release their repos are (but it is part of their policy.)
It's not official for your OS though. Gnome 3 is currently at like 3.22, that's the official. See if you can get support using 3.22 on RHEL. Official for RHEL is 3.14. If we are going to count what's available in the repos as official, then what's in the RHEL repo is official. Chrome isn't in the repo, so what's in their repo is the official.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
The Ansible version in the example was the recommended deployment process right from Ansible's documentation.
So is installing from Yum from EPEL.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
It's not official for your OS though.
Right and the point was to be running the official of Ansible, not the official of CentOS. It can't be both, has to be one or the other (in most cases.) Same with LibreOffice. The latest LibreOffice is basically always newer than the one in your OS repo.
Think about MongoDB as a great example. No OS keeps it current. So the official, latest, stable, supported, recommended MangoDB always comes from MongoDB. But they maintain their own repos for many different OSes, even though those OSes all (or almost all) maintain older MongoDB versions in their own repos. Which is official?
If you are looking for the latest from Ubuntu, then MongoDB is old. If you want the latest official from MongoDB, then it gets new. Both are valid and have different use cases.
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
The Ansible version in the example was the recommended deployment process right from Ansible's documentation.
So is installing from Yum from EPEL.
Not if you want the currently recommended version of Ansible (at least at that time.)
-
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You're cloning from GitHub for current. That's like using the dev release of Chrome. The release of Chrome in the repo is the official stable release. The release of Ansible in the repos for RHEL are the official stable release. It's not the same thing at all.
That's incorrect. Ansible 2 was the official release at that time. Cloning from GIT is how Ansible releases their production release. You are totally misunderstanding how this works in this case. What RH puts in the repos is in no way reflective of what is the production release from Ansible (or any other product) and this should be very widely understood. The RH repos are almost never current on anything, this is in fact famously the biggest complaint of RH, just how far behind current release their repos are (but it is part of their policy.)
It's not official for your OS though. Gnome 3 is currently at like 3.22, that's the official. See if you can get support using 3.22 on RHEL. Official for RHEL is 3.14. If we are going to count what's available in the repos as official, then what's in the RHEL repo is official. Chrome isn't in the repo, so what's in their repo is the official.
Right, but I don't consider what is in the OS repo as official to the applications, it's what is officially part of the OS.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@scottalanmiller said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
@stacksofplates said in Xubuntu 16.10 Issue Detected:
You're cloning from GitHub for current. That's like using the dev release of Chrome. The release of Chrome in the repo is the official stable release. The release of Ansible in the repos for RHEL are the official stable release. It's not the same thing at all.
That's incorrect. Ansible 2 was the official release at that time. Cloning from GIT is how Ansible releases their production release. You are totally misunderstanding how this works in this case. What RH puts in the repos is in no way reflective of what is the production release from Ansible (or any other product) and this should be very widely understood. The RH repos are almost never current on anything, this is in fact famously the biggest complaint of RH, just how far behind current release their repos are (but it is part of their policy.)
It's not official for your OS though. Gnome 3 is currently at like 3.22, that's the official. See if you can get support using 3.22 on RHEL. Official for RHEL is 3.14. If we are going to count what's available in the repos as official, then what's in the RHEL repo is official. Chrome isn't in the repo, so what's in their repo is the official.
Right, but I don't consider what is in the OS repo as official to the applications, it's what is officially part of the OS.
And you have no way to verify that what you are using works with the current packages you have. So you are running into the exact problem you are telling him not to do. How do you guarantee that the MongoDB version that's current from their repos works with the packages on your system? That's the whole point of using a distro's repos. You're going against what you're preaching.
