Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows
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https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/53rq2l/warning_microsoft_signature_pc_program_now/
Reports that installation of Linux is prevented deliberately by a proprietary RAID config that won't allow anything other than Windows. No confirmation yet if this is the case, but interesting discussion going on.
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Updated info from Lenovo:
https://techraptor.net/content/lenovo-windows-10-linux -
According to someone at Lenovo:
To improve system performance, Lenovo is leading an industry trend of adopting RAID on the SSDs in certain product configurations. Lenovo does not intentionally block customers using other operating systems on its devices and is fully committed to providing Linux certifications and installation guidance on a wide range of products – https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd031426. Unsupported models will rely on Linux operating system vendors releasing new kernel and drivers to support features such as RAID on SSD.
Yoga 900 is designed for Windows 10 and is not on Lenovo’s Linux supported list. As mentioned, Lenovo has an extensive list of Linux supported and/or certified products.
Thus our response regarding the reports that Lenovo and Microsoft have an agreement to “lock” the UEFI bios on Microsoft Signature Edition systems to prevent installation of other operating systems, is that this information is incorrect!
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Which I read as the same thing, it sounds like it is indeed blocking Linux. How would lack of RAID drivers cause problems with Linux specifically? And the Yoga, they even state, is Windows only.
Um... so they just acknowledged the original article as being true? I'm unclear if Lenovo is just agreeing or confused?
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So another reason to not purchase Lenovo equipment.
Did you need more reasons?
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Next thing they will be doing is creating a custom Windows version that has backdoors built in for any given 3-letter agency...
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@DustinB3403 Don't you think that was done years ago?
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@aaronstuder said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@DustinB3403 Don't you think that was done years ago?
Yeah but it was done poorly, they need one built into windows to recover their "appearance"
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@aaronstuder said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@DustinB3403 Don't you think that was done years ago?
Nah, they only did a generic one years ago. This will be like a Lenovo Signature Edition malware
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@DustinB3403 said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
So another reason to not purchase Lenovo equipment.
Did you need more reasons?
Maybe that's the catch. If you're dumb enough to buy Lenovo, they already know they can't trust you to tinker with it without breaking something, so they just lock out the ability.
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@art_of_shred said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
@DustinB3403 said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
So another reason to not purchase Lenovo equipment.
Did you need more reasons?
Maybe that's the catch. If you're dumb enough to buy Lenovo, they already know they can't trust you to tinker with it without breaking something, so they just lock out the ability.
There is a lot to be said for doing things that let you know for sure that your customer is an idiot. Then you can do a lot of things with impunity.
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Matthew Garret of CoreOS on Twitter (@mjg59)
Lenovo aren't deliberately blocking free software on recent laptops (spoiler: it's Intel's fault)
OH MY GOD the person who started the Lenovo shitstorm is Ryan Farmer https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Microsoft-Signature-PC-No-Linux …, who spammed me after I debunked him in 2008
Summary: This guy has a history of making over the top accusations, and responds badly when called on it. Don't enable him.
The background is straightforward. Intel platforms allow the storage to be configured in two different ways - "standard" (normal AHCI on SATA systems, normal NVMe on NVMe systems) or "RAID". "RAID" mode is typically just changing the PCI IDs so that the normal drivers won't bind, ensuring that drivers that support the software RAID mode are used. Intel have not submitted any patches to Linux to support the "RAID" mode.
In this specific case, Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and doesn't allow you to change that. Since Linux has no support for the hardware when configured this way, you can't install Linux (distribution installers will boot, but won't find any storage device to install the OS to).
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The real problem here is that Intel do very little to ensure that free operating systems work well on their consumer hardware - we still have no information from Intel on how to configure systems to ensure good power management, we have no support for storage devices in "RAID" mode and we have no indication that this is going to get better in future. If Intel had provided that support, this issue would never have occurred. Rather than be angry at Lenovo, let's put pressure on Intel to provide support for their hardware. -
@aidan_walsh nice find!
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@aidan_walsh said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
In this specific case, Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and doesn't allow you to change that. Since Linux has no support for the hardware when configured this way, you can't install Linux.
I'm confused. He writes like he is debunking that Lenovo is blocking Linux, then explains exactly how Lenovo is blocking Linux. Um... clearly Lenovo is doing the blocking, not Intel. Intel might make the tools for it, but Intel on any other vendor has no problem. The problem isn't Intel here at all. That's misdirection. Lenovo changed the default (not good) and then locked it to that (very bad.) This isn't just bad for Linux users, Intel RAID is unthinkably bad on Windows, too.
The author is using "tone" to try to make it sound like Intel is at fault here, but his words confirm that it is Lenovo 100%.
And he doesn't say that the guy making the claim is wrong, only that he was wrong in the past. More misdirection. He's attacking the person's character, but never disputes the claim itself.
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TL;DR - clusterfuck, severity level 3/10.
Linux driver support still blows - this is not news.
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I'm calling Matthew Garret out for these:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
"Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it." - He attacked the person pointing out the problem, not the problem itself.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ambiguity
"Politicians are often guilty of using ambiguity to mislead and will later point to how they were technically not outright lying if they come under scrutiny. The reason that it qualifies as a fallacy is that it is intrinsically misleading." - Used tone to make it sound like the opposite of his words were true.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white
"Also known as the false dilemma, this insidious tactic has the appearance of forming a logical argument, but under closer scrutiny it becomes evident that there are more possibilities than the either/or choice that is presented. Binary, black-or-white thinking doesn't allow for the many different variables, conditions, and contexts in which there would exist more than just the two possibilities put forth. It frames the argument misleadingly and obscures rational, honest debate." - He suggests that because Intel enabled the blocking, that Lenovo using it wasn't Lenovo's fault. But Intel isn't a player here, they forced nothing to be done wrong.
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@MattSpeller said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
Linux driver support still blows - this is not news.
False. Linux driver support is amazing. Better than Windows, I think that you will find. The issue here is bad hardware that there is no reason someone would want a driver for. The "driver" in question here is the infamous Intel FakeRAID driver that no one actually wants. Not having it could be argued to be better support, in fact.
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yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
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@Dashrender said in Latest from Lenovo - locked in to Windows:
yeah it's crappy that Lenovo enabled the FakeRAID by default, but is it true that it can't be disabled?
If I were to put money down, it'd be that changing it breaks the OS boot sequence.
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Something to keep in mind this is a consumer machine. Dell and Asus both pull crap on their consumer systems.
