Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
It's true, even when discussing the consulting side he's using the term sells. Like "been selling Synology in the past."
We have to be clear, we aren't saying that selling is bad. We are pointing out that you are thinking of yourself as a VAR, not as a consultant, even when you aren't being paid to sell. I think that's what is making this seem like there is wiggle room on the ethics... because you are thinking of consulting as "selling solutions", which is not how we see it.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
it's not like that at all - because you KNOW the $50 will be there after you 'recommend' a product.
Right, there isn't just money laying around... it only appears after you've done a specific action.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
it's not like that at all - because you KNOW the $50 will be there after you 'recommend' a product.
Right, there isn't just money laying around... it only appears after you've done a specific action.
And your big assumption which is illogical, is that one ONLY does the action BECAUSE there is money laying around. I simply disagree with this. Not in every case.
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I'm going to use a childish example.
I hire you, to go into bakeries and pick the best baker for me.
Now, you are down to 2 bakeries.
One of them, says they will give you some money if your client buys from them. The other does not.
Which bakery will you most likely recommend?
Now, your client finds out about this, how does that affect your relationship and the work you delivered for them?
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
You are unwilling to allow for someone to continue giving solid advice and solutions irregardless of affiliations.
Pretty much, that's correct. Someone choosing to have money drive their actions, who then accepts money given for the express purpose of driving their actions in another way, will be influenced by that money. And doing sales under the guise of consulting is unethical.
That is correct, I feel that that is essentially black and white. If you consult for the purpose of making money, you can't not be swayed by someone giving you money for another purpose. The fact that this is your job makes you influenced by money.
This is just a play on words, and why we're going around and around.
I don't sign up for an affiliation because I somehow WANT and CHOOSE to have "money drive their actions". I don't want money to drive my actions at all! I signed up because it's just available to do.
If there was no money - would you still sign up? if not, why not?
Right, and why do you think that they are paying you? Because they are confident that you will be biased by the money. Otherwise they would never pay you.
So much this.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I sign up because it's just THERE, easy, free, simple. I think of it as nothing more than walking down the sidewalk and seeing a $50 bill. I bend over and pick it up because it's there. Something I wasn't expecting, but hey it's there.
it's not like that at all - because you KNOW the $50 will be there after you 'recommend' a product.
Right, there isn't just money laying around... it only appears after you've done a specific action.
And your big assumption which is illogical, is that one ONLY does the action BECAUSE there is money laying around. I simply disagree with this. Not in every case.
Sure... but that's totally a sales pitch. It is totally irrelevant if this happens in every case, it matters only if it happens in any case.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
A consultant consults.....about what the client should buy. Sounds like sales to me. The only difference is whether there is some other monetary gain for the recommended solution.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I'm going to use a childish example.
Great example, let me break it up.
I hire you, to go into bakeries and pick the best baker for me.
This is the consultant doing research part that the client will be paying you for your time.
Now, you are down to 2 bakeries.
This is where a consultant then will stop and build a pro con of the final recommendations.
One of them, says they will give you some money if your client buys from them. The other does not.
This is where the salesperson will go.
Now, your client finds out about this, how does that affect your relationship and the work you delivered for them?
You will no longer ever get called to be a consultant, because you are a paid sales guy for bakery #1.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
And your big assumption which is illogical, is that one ONLY does the action BECAUSE there is money laying around. I simply disagree with this. Not in every case.
You can disagree but this isn't an opinion, this is a fact. You only get money BECAUSE you do an action. The money isn't laying around until that action happens. Period. Anything other than this is simply lying. If you don't recommend a product, you don't get paid for that product. It's that simple. You can't argue that this isn't true.
You are acting like money is just lying around. It is not. You have to do something before the money is there.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Of course but those are consultant man hours and have nothing to do with getting paid by a third party.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Not for true consultants, true consultants only consult. They only get paid to make a recommendation, then they walk away and someone else does whatever work is desired by the clients. - which is why I asked how NTG reconciles that situation for jobs they both consult and implement.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Of course but those are consultant man hours and have nothing to do with getting paid by a third party.
And are effectively unavoidable, not an intentional accepting of money in exchange for peddling a product. And they are 100% visible to the customer. And the customer can optionally choose to remove that influence (and often does.) There is zero hidden bias here, and zero intentional anti-customer bias.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Of course but those are consultant man hours and have nothing to do with getting paid by a third party.
I don't think he meant 10 more consulting hours.. he meant 10 more implementation hours. - unless you did mean consulting hours @guyinpv ?
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Not for true consultants, true consultants only consult. They only get paid to make a recommendation, then they walk away and someone else does whatever work is desired by the clients. - which is why I asked how NTG reconciles that situation for jobs they both consult and implement.
That's a grey area, I think. Well worth considering, and we do, but all IT is advice, really. Giving advice and doing work overlaps heavily. There is no totally clear line. Customers can make one, but one doesn't appear naturally.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Not for true consultants, true consultants only consult. They only get paid to make a recommendation, then they walk away and someone else does whatever work is desired by the clients. - which is why I asked how NTG reconciles that situation for jobs they both consult and implement.
The answer to that part of the quesiton is that because as a consultant, i recommend these 2 or 3 solutions that you hired me to research for your specific situation.
Now that you have paid me for my time for research, you can now pay me to implement whichever one you want, or you can take these specs to someone else to implement them. This works because the client owns everything at this point. All of the information and knowledge should have been transferred in the recommendation paperwork/meeting.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Not for true consultants, true consultants only consult. They only get paid to make a recommendation, then they walk away and someone else does whatever work is desired by the clients. - which is why I asked how NTG reconciles that situation for jobs they both consult and implement.
That's a grey area, I think. Well worth considering, and we do, but all IT is advice, really. Giving advice and doing work overlaps heavily. There is no totally clear line. Customers can make one, but one doesn't appear naturally.
It can be a grey area, but see my above point.
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@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Not for true consultants, true consultants only consult. They only get paid to make a recommendation, then they walk away and someone else does whatever work is desired by the clients. - which is why I asked how NTG reconciles that situation for jobs they both consult and implement.
The answer to that part of the quesiton is that because as a consultant, i recommend these 2 or 3 solutions that you hired me to research for your specific situation.
Now that you have paid me for my time for research, you can now pay me to implement whichever one you want, or you can take these specs to someone else to implement them. This works because the client owns everything at this point. All of the information and knowledge should have been transferred in the recommendation paperwork/meeting.
Agreed, they have the plans that they purchased your recommendation for. Now they can use you or not...
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@Dashrender said
which is why I asked how NTG reconciles that situation for jobs they both consult and implement.
As your consultant, you can take my system designs, my plans, my ideas, my solutions to anyone else and if they are even half competent, they can implement them no problem, so you win. You have paid for that and you receive that.
If you then want me to physically implement the plan, that's fine but that's a separate piece of work.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I'm going to use a childish example.
I hire you, to go into bakeries and pick the best baker for me.
Now, you are down to 2 bakeries.
One of them, says they will give you some money if your client buys from them. The other does not.
Which bakery will you most likely recommend?
Now, your client finds out about this, how does that affect your relationship and the work you delivered for them?
Ok, if I may.
If a person wants a bakery, one of the first things out of my mouth is who I consider top bakeries already. I'm not going to somehow "pretend" like I never heard of bakery A and then kind of "pretend" that they come out on top while secretly knowing all along I have a commission with them.
In the real world, I would disclose that I have a recommended baker that I work with and here are the benefits X, Y, Z.
Nobody is suggesting to be sleazy or secretive about affiliations or partner vendors or solutions or that a particular link is an affiliate.
Completely hiding the affiliation or pretending like your top baker was totally by accident is what I think we're talking about, is "corrupt".
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@JaredBusch said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv you keep saying sell. That should be the entire discussion. Period. End of Story.
A consultant consults. A salesperson sells. Period.
What if solution A requires 10 more man hours on the contract? That's monetary gain too. If the mortgage is due and the wife bought too many wingdings at the home store, solution A because bit more appealing.
Of course but those are consultant man hours and have nothing to do with getting paid by a third party.
I don't think he meant 10 more consulting hours.. he meant 10 more implementation hours. - unless you did mean consulting hours @guyinpv ?
I wasn't thinking in terms of consult versus implement. That's an interesting angle.
Typically I do both for people.
