Why I Love Hiring Those that Teach Themselves
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@scottalanmiller said:
Self learning is the best way to prove to employers and to yourself how ready to you are to tackle the ongoing growth and educational demands of the industry.
And yet this is the single biggest problem in the industry, many employers don't understand this as a concept so we have the certification/degree game still being played.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why I Love Hiring Those that Teach Themselves:
@scottalanmiller said:
Self learning is the best way to prove to employers and to yourself how ready to you are to tackle the ongoing growth and educational demands of the industry.
And yet this is the single biggest problem in the industry, many employers don't understand this as a concept so we have the certification/degree game still being played.
Although that doesn't really mean that they don't understand, in many cases it simply means that they don't care. We should not assume that hiring planning involved getting the best people.
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Totally agree with your entire post. I'm an autodidact myself, never been in a trainee position.
The single biggest problem is HR, IMHO: They will fast scan job applications for formal problems and will put them in the "round permanent storage bin" the second where they see your missing higher education degree for example or missing certification. They don't understand requirements for candidates or that a senior tech with 15 years of experience is virtually always better than some fresh master in computer sciences who never got his hands dirty and bleeding from sharp chassis edges.
I'm not saying that studying is worthless, but learning doesn't end with your degree. It ends when you are being put in a box.
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@thwr said in Why I Love Hiring Those that Teach Themselves:
The single biggest problem is HR, IMHO: They will fast scan job applications for formal problems and will put them in the "round permanent storage bin" the second where they see your missing higher education degree for example or missing certification. They don't understand requirements for candidates or that a senior tech with 15 years of experience is virtually always better than some fresh master in computer sciences who never got his hands dirty and bleeding from sharp chassis edges.
That's why no company trying to hire good people allows HR to be in the chain of decision making (outside of looking up criminal records or whatever.) That doesn't mean that most companies don't want to hire the best, only that the good jobs don't get limited in this way.
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@thwr said in Why I Love Hiring Those that Teach Themselves:
I'm not saying that studying is worthless, but learning doesn't end with your degree. It ends when you are being put in a box.
Right. The important part about formal studies is that it does not tell us anything useful. I don't need to know, ever, if someone can learn in a classroom. That's not useful info to me as a hiring manager. I just need to know if they can learn without a classroom. People who have only learned without one, I know can do it. People who have learned in a classroom we don't know that and we know that they fall into a pool of people dramatically more likely to be limited to a classroom setting (statistically they put themselves into the pool with the worst candidates for learning.)
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Excellent article and so wonderful that you give credit to the self taught. My grandfather (near the end of his lifetime) was considered to be the "World's Foremost Authority" on textile mills. Papa only had a second grade formal education. One day while talking about my choices for employment and education, I ask about how he picked his new hires. He said, "I will hire a B-C student every single day before I hire an A student." I looked at him puzzled. Papa replied to my puzzled look and said, "A B-C student is always willing to learn anything you are willing to teach them. An A student thinks they already know it all."
When I got out and started my own businesses I thought about the things Papa had told me. I often wondered if they were true or even close to true. I have been to school several times and have been a 4.0 student (but that was for ME not anyone else) and have watched people around me, people I have hired, people I have worked for... Papa was right. Scott your article is correct also. I would much rather work with a mind who is willing to continue to learn every day!
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I just registered to this website only because I wanted to reply to your article:
Because I am mostly a self-taught person with no certs to hang on the wall on my last interview I've been told "your CV is outstanding, but I do not understand why there is so much of a gap between your job experience and your education".
Unfortunately I did not have the spot-on answer (or bravery if you like) to tell them what I really think about being certified versus have a real understanding about what is going on with your network/server/whatever because you learned that the hard way.Needless to say, I didn't get through the interview.
Now, how today's businesses will judge my CV if I specifically write down "self-taught education" on that will be nice to know. -
@LorenzDR said in Why I Love Hiring Those that Teach Themselves:
I just registered to this website only because I wanted to reply to your article:
Welcome to the community!
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@LorenzDR said in Why I Love Hiring Those that Teach Themselves:
Now, how today's businesses will judge my CV if I specifically write down "self-taught education" on that will be nice to know.
Well, I would not put it necessarily in those terms. What I've done is simply put no education section on my resume/CV whatsoever. There are times that this will eliminate me from consideration at a job, but not at any job I'd be comfortable taking, so I take this as a benefit, not a negative.
When interviewing, yes confidence is key. If you know your stuff, be confident. State clearly why you know what you know. State that you are a self learning. For me I talk about learning from books, reading articles, running a massive home lab, volunteer and intern work and so forth. Question why they think that college courses would be beneficial if they teach at a slower pace and less thoroughly or up to date as you teach yourself. Ask why they would expect a correlation between experience and education - why do they feel that formal education is needed to learn a skill, that's counter-intuitive as classroom learning is slow and ineffectual in most cases. How many professors would likely have the skill?
Sadly, defending a lack of formal education is often needed. But when done well, it can work wonders.
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The downside is, of course, if the person with whom you are interviewing went to college and thought that it was hard, he or she will easily be offended that you are that much better at IT than they are or that it is implied. If they needed someone to hold their hand and teach them what you learned on your own... a lot of low end managers will take offence. But then again, do you really want to work for someone that is both challenged by learning the basics, can't teach themselves and doesn't want to hire the best people but only people who aren't better than they are?
Yes, it lowers your total career options, but it limits them in a positive way. Fewer overall options, better remaining ones.
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So much truth in this article! Great write-up Scott!
Indeed, continual learning throughout the entire journey is a must. This field is growing and evolving so quickly that we have to be passionately diligent if we're going to keep up with it and remain relevant.
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@Shuey Thanks!
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Hi @scottalanmiller Nice to read, now I'm wondering if I'm qualified to be hired by you. JK.
Anyway as of this time, I am teaching myself with most subjects in college totally unrelated to IT world, Like Science, Economics, Psychology and total of 12 Subjects.
Don't judge me but as soon I'm finished with this Subjects I will defense my IT paper to the director of Academics affairs.
I'm telling you, self teaching is not easy, but a very rewarding thing to do.
Cheers! -
Life is one continuous stream of issues & problems.
Living is solving them.
Learning is everything.
