What is New Earth
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@dafyre said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
And now we have a new thread thanks to @scottalanmiller
Yes... so we don't flood the other thread with theology and science-speak, lol.
I totally take the blame for that one, lol.
I won't go as far to say that Science will never be wrong... Look at the early days... the Earth used to be flat, and the sun used to revolve around the Earth.
But I also can't wrap my head around a scenario of putting all of the parts for a watch in the washing machine and letting it run for 50 bazillion years that at some point you would have a fully functioning watch...
But I do believe that if I jump off the roof of a building I am going to fall.
People haven't thought the Earth was flat for at least 2,500 years, even people in the dark ages knew it to be round, though their beliefs about what was on the bottom were sometimes funny. I think it's mostly an Americanism to think people at any recent time thought the Earth was flat, largely related to the incorrect stories about Columbus.
The "Flat Earth" theory of today really came around the time biblical literalism came into fashion in the mid-19th century, largely a response to Darwinism. So, no, not even people in the 12th century took the Bible to be 100% literal.
Then again, today we also have the KJV-only crowd, which states essentially the KJV version of the Bible is the most accurate translation, which is fairly convenient since it's in English, and does create some serious issues such as if that's the case why is there a disparity between the pluralisation of "heaven(s)" in Genesis 1:2 and 2:1 from the Hebrew.
At any rate, some of them even want to go and re-translate other things backward to be "more accurate". There's more to it about how silly it is, but it's pretty over the top silly.
That is specifically why I used early days... More so to prove a point than anything else [read: I am no historian]. Science changes as new facts come to light.
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@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
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@dafyre said in What is New Earth:
That is specifically why I used early days... More so to prove a point than anything else [read: I am no historian]. Science changes as new facts come to light.
Ha ha, but so does religion
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Many of those that are religious would argue that atheism must be a religion as it requires faith. Agnosticism has a strong argument for the potential to be religion free. But just as believing in a higher being requires faith, believing there is not one transfers that faith to the universe in such a way that it becomes religious.
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@dafyre said in What is New Earth:
@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@brianlittlejohn said in What is New Earth:
@Minion-Queen said in Homeschool Resources:
@tonyshowoff said in Homeschool Resources:
@JaredBusch What is "new earth"?
Biblical Creation
Well... not quite... Its specifically Young Earth Biblical Creation. There are alot of people that believe in old earth Biblical Creation.
I've only heard Young Earth (meaning that the earth isn't old), but have not heard new earth.
We all know what they say about assumptions... but I always assumed Young Earth = New Earth? Google of Young Earth vs New Earth doesn't show anything but Young Earth vs Old earth at first glance.
The terminology may be misleading on purpose, like "intelligent design" even though, purely coincidentally, the design itself matches with Young Earth Creationism specific to American Evangelical Christianity, and yet if it's supposed to be a science, I don't think it'd be that specific.
If you throw Science out the Window and go purely and completely and totally on faith in the God of the Bible, there's still no evidence written in the Bible as to how old the Earth actually is.
If you completely throw faith out the window and go for science only, you know how old the world is, but have to accept the Washing-Machine / Watch analogy.
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My point only being that atheists have the same factors pushing them to weird views of science as do those in theist religions. A desire to skew science to support belief.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@dafyre said in What is New Earth:
That is specifically why I used early days... More so to prove a point than anything else [read: I am no historian]. Science changes as new facts come to light.
Ha ha, but so does religion
Well religion changes as new facts come to light, but often the changes are reactionary to said facts.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Many of those that are religious would argue that atheism must be a religion as it requires faith. Agnosticism has a strong argument for the potential to be religion free. But just as believing in a higher being requires faith, believing there is not one transfers that faith to the universe in such a way that it becomes religious.
I think some atheists have a weird cult-like view of their own and themselves, but most atheists I don't think really have any faith at all, and I don't consider "belief" in science to be a matter of faith, because science is true whether or not you believe it. One could say that about God, but you can't test God, but you can test in science.
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Many of those that are religious would argue that atheism must be a religion as it requires faith. Agnosticism has a strong argument for the potential to be religion free. But just as believing in a higher being requires faith, believing there is not one transfers that faith to the universe in such a way that it becomes religious.
I think some atheists have a weird cult-like view of their own and themselves, but most atheists I don't think really have any faith at all, and I don't consider "belief" in science to be a matter of faith, because science is true whether or not you believe it. One could say that about God, but you can't test God, but you can test in science.
True, but a belief in science and atheism are separate ideas.
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@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said. Unless you're not considering all forms of faith to "subscribing to a religion", but that just reminds me of that "I'm not religious, I'm more spiritual" spiel you get from college students and massage therapists. I'm talking about any matter of faith at all in anything unprovable.
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
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@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
But at work... surround yourself with idiots so that you look better and are more likely to get promotions! Brilliant strategy
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@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
So what are you defining religious as then? Any faith in anything or organised religion only?
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@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
But at work... surround yourself with idiots so that you look better and are more likely to get promotions! Brilliant strategy
YES! But in all fairness, the idiots were already here when I showed up.
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@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
But at work... surround yourself with idiots so that you look better and are more likely to get promotions! Brilliant strategy
YES! But in all fairness, the idiots were already here when I showed up.
Yes, it's hard to find fresh idiots a lot of times. but you just have to make sure that your meetings, for example, are just you and the idiots.
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@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
But at work... surround yourself with idiots so that you look better and are more likely to get promotions! Brilliant strategy
YES! But in all fairness, the idiots were already here when I showed up.
You gotta keep your eye on them to make sure they don't break anything and get you in trouble for it.
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@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Atheism is not an automatic sign of being reasonable or intelligent.
Who said I was atheist? That's as bad an "ism" as all the rest. I am fervently anti-religion, all of them. I believe in science, not in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-translated stories from thousands of years ago.
Nobody, I never said you were an atheist. I was merely pointing out lack of a religion doesn't mean they're intelligent, which is what you basically said.
Actually, I said I don't discuss science with religious people. Nor do I discuss it with idiots or otherwise unreasonable people. When not at work, I surround myself with intelligent people.
So what are you defining religious as then? Any faith in anything or organised religion only?
I like to torment my religious friends by calling their religion a cult.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Many of those that are religious would argue that atheism must be a religion as it requires faith. Agnosticism has a strong argument for the potential to be religion free. But just as believing in a higher being requires faith, believing there is not one transfers that faith to the universe in such a way that it becomes religious.
One of my favorite quotes to both say and use growing up was that "everyone has faith in something, including atheists". Because either you have faith that there is something else bigger out there, or you have faith their isn't.
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@thanksajdotcom said in What is New Earth:
@scottalanmiller said in What is New Earth:
@tonyshowoff said in What is New Earth:
@RojoLoco said in What is New Earth:
I've always practiced a policy of "never discuss science with those who subscribe to any religion". This has saved me immeasurable time over the years.
I've known plenty of atheists with piss poor understanding of science. Of course, if one's religion clouds their ability to reason it doesn't really matter, but you can find a lot of die hard conspiracy theorists and flat earthers who are atheists too. There's one famous flat earth guy, I think his film is called "under the dome", anyway he thinks it's aliens, not God which put us in this dome.
Many of those that are religious would argue that atheism must be a religion as it requires faith. Agnosticism has a strong argument for the potential to be religion free. But just as believing in a higher being requires faith, believing there is not one transfers that faith to the universe in such a way that it becomes religious.
One of my favorite quotes to both say and use growing up was that "everyone has faith in something, including atheists". Because either you have faith that there is something else bigger out there, or you have faith their isn't.
I don't know, that kind of argument always seemed to me to be a way to try to re-level faith and reason, such as when creationists sometimes say "you have faith in evolution" or whatever, as if both are equally testable. There's certainly a separation of faith and reason, and when you try to consider them the same, you get beliefs which defy immediately observable science and really become delusions rather than acts of faith, such as flat earth.
