Posts made by guyinpv

@tonyshowoff Many things in here are wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion.

@scottalanmiller said in Homeschool Resources:

@guyinpv said in Homeschool Resources:

I just haven't seen it.
I would agree though, for very specific topics. I can understand the religious wanting to avoid topics like sexual studies, evolution, atheistic indoctrination, etc. But at the same time, I would not think it's hard to find good curriculum for general studies like math, grammar, and history.

Math and grammar not so bad. but you'd be shocked how many of even those resources are loaded with agenda.

History is quite hard, though. It's the same as science and sex studies, all altered to support an agenda. ...

Well what ISN'T altered to support an agenda? Public schools probably have the strongest agendas of all.

@scottalanmiller said in Homeschool Resources:

@guyinpv said in Homeschool Resources:

In my experience, people homeschool mostly due to poor performance or safety of local schools, that's about it.

As homeschoolers this seems hard to believe. The availability of materials and resources for sound education are rare and the number that exist for homeschooling in an indoctrination mode are myriad. There are plenty of both camps (and likely other camps too) but that the indoctrination and or "avoiding education" camp is an extremely large one. Enough that even within homeschool groups it feels almost like a foregone conclusion.

I just haven't seen it.
I would agree though, for very specific topics. I can understand the religious wanting to avoid topics like sexual studies, evolution, atheistic indoctrination, etc. But at the same time, I would not think it's hard to find good curriculum for general studies like math, grammar, and history.
And what does "avoid education" even mean? The homeschooling families I know, don't avoid anything, unless they feel it is either not age-appropriate yet, or instead they teach it within a different set of presuppositions.

I guess what I'm saying is, homeschooling isn't like, you wake up, sit your kids at the table and then sort of randomly think up things to say that day.
Every family I've ever known has a very structured and complete system they go through, with lessons, books, tests, video series, online instruction, whatever. It isn't random. They are typically full K-12 programs.

@scottalanmiller said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:

@guyinpv said in Compare ClearOS with Zentyal:

Are we suggesting here that the best way to do anything is only deal with raw components directly?

Have you read the article that this is based on? It's very clearly not a problem with GUIs. It's about third party, non-expert dependencies that create a gap between you and the system that you are managing. GUIs from Microsoft or Red Hat I have no issue with. But a company or product that just slaps a GUI on top of an already existing management structure is generally problematic. You don't have the necessary vertical integration and release cycles.

I think we're getting too abstract here.
What specifically are you talking about as an example? Are you saying Webmin is doing this? What existing management structure is Webmin superseding?

In my case I typically am not installing KDE or Gnome or anything, I just have CLI-only installations, so there is no existing management interface, just my raw scripts and configs. So Webmin, I don't think, would be acting as a 3rd level in this sense. It's directly acting on the default configs and scripts.

I can see how it would not make sense to install Linux with KDE or XFCE and then install another alternate GUI on top when there might be a GUI for any given service already available.

How about unschooling?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

Also lets not take potshots at the religious as if they only homeschool in order to indoctrinate, and we need the mighty seculars to save our children.
Let's not forget it was religion and its ideas and beliefs that created schools and hospitals and much of science to begin with. They elevated the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom, not destroyed it.

In my experience, people homeschool mostly due to poor performance or safety of local schools, that's about it. And also the complete overreach of schools that seem to take over the role the parents are supposed to play. And thirdly, because they simply witness the little horrors that are being created from factory schools. Kids with no sense of direction, no respect for authority, no honor or decency or sense of responsibility.
This is not even to mention the complete lack of any sort of training in actual useful topics. No real world skills, no homemaking skills, no mechanical or handyman skills, no finance or business or investing skills. No understanding of government or economics. Instead, they come out entitled little America-hating socialists who want to play video games all day and live off the government while hating all rich people, religions, hard working business people, and capitalism.

I would rather my kid have a solid education and be a decent, respectful, hard working person but also have been taught young earth creationism, than to come out an entitled little disrespectful socialist brat who thinks the world revolves around him and owes him a beautiful life, but not have any real world skills and thinks all businesses are greedy while enjoying his daily Starbucks and iPhone.

@scottalanmiller Does this matter? I've installed and used thousands of pieces of software without knowing everything about how the underlying components work. I can install Windows Server and use AD and not know how the underlying subsystem works too. What's the point?
If anything, using Win Server abstracts the components away from me even more so than something like Webmin. At least with Webmin, I'm well aware it is just a GUI for making config changes, and I know underneath is BIND or SAMBA. With Windows I don't know anything about the subsystem, and they don't exactly let me have raw access to it.

Are we suggesting here that the best way to do anything is only deal with raw components directly?

Technology would not be where it is today if people were not abstracting core stuff into simpler and simpler interfaces. I could probably write this forum post by sending obscure commands over SSH to a server with my API key, but frankly I'd rather just use the GUI and not deal with core components directly.

@johnhooks One thing I like about Webmin (unless I read them wrong), is that they don't change the default installations of the underlying applications. The configs and everything are in normal locations. You can even do CLI work and edit configs side-by-side with Webmin and won't hurt anything. Seems to me it's just a UI for running common scripts and editing configs.
Other control panels require installing all applications themselves, and customize things and move files around and make it so you can't (or at least shouldn't) edit anything manually. That I don't like.

Never used or heard of Cockpit. On CentOS for my web servers I might run CentOS Web Panel, or Vesta.

@johnhooks Call me crazy. I kinda like these purpose-built UI control panels.
I also use Webmin on top of a server. So these are Ubuntu or CentOS boxes without a desktop/windows system, but one of these control panels on top.

Honestly I've never built a server using just KDE or Gnome or whatever. I've almost always just done a purpose-built control panel.

@scottalanmiller Maybe so. It's really the UI I want. I don't have time to type endless commands on a black screen!

@scottalanmiller

DNS.
AD.
Network shares + cloud sync ability.
Endpoint for workstation backups.
VPN likely
Web server (really on a different VM tho)

If all I did was pick stuff I already knew how to support, I'd never get anything new and improved!

Zentyal isn't all bad or scary, it's point-n-click UI, nothing too crazy. It can be learned easy enough.

How is learning a visual UI more difficult or scary than building a server from scratch? That seems the most barbaric method of all.

What made ClearOS look enticing was that it was the OS and software all in one, with a web interface ready to go. And Zentyal is software running on top of my own Linux install. A little more complicated in a way. ClearOS felt almost like an appliance, in other words.

If neither of these are a good choice, what's the next option? I refuse to offload this to Internet services, not with our ISP being so spotty. I need to run it on our Xen server.

Has anybody compared ClearOS with Zentyal side-by-side?

Both can be a replacement for a Windows Server environment, so I'm wondering if anybody has done a head-to-head on them.

Let's pretend they would be used for all the common server roles. DNS, AD, SAMBA, Web server, etc.

OK I created another VM and tried again and was able to get free version.
Not sure what happened last time, I think the VM of Windows was doing updates and there were popups to restart the computer. I have a feeling I restarted it before OO finished configuring itself?

Anyway, it works now, just playing around with it.

I agree that Libre is just fine, but I can't stand the awful interface and UI quirks.

Just as a followup to this. I created a VM of Win 7 and installed the desktop apps which are clearly labeled as "free for home":

After opening the app though, it immediately says I can't open or create local files without a license, and sends me to the purchase page. I see no options at all about using the free version. I don't know how to unlock it or where to get a free license?

Oh well, would have liked to try it.

Which part is confusing again?
Right from the main home page, click "Solutions" and the bottom one says "Desktop". On that page is a big "Download" button.
The license is a very common "free for home, pay for business". Or free if you are a SaaS customer.

They offer the infrastructure as cloud-hosted, paid. Or install on your own server, AGPLv3. Or just use desktop apps, free for home, pay for business.

The whole cloud/saas vs local deploy vs desktop app may confuse things but just a few minutes looking sorts it out.

Of course they want to promote their full enterprise SaaS cloud version the most.

In any case, I think I'll give these a try and see howe they work. I like Libre Office alright, but don't like the 15 year old looking interface. Wish they had some GUI designers give things a fresh look.

@DustinB3403
The "try now" is just setting up an online version for you to play with. The actual product is a download, in fact it runs in Docker on top of Windows or Linux.

Watching some of their videos, seems pretty slick.

LibreOffice doesn't let you collaborate on a document at the same time, attach to projects or all that other stuff.

I'm assuming that it can be opened to the web in order to allow people to work remotely too, not sure.

Seems like it's trying to be a document store as well as Intranet and office apps. Has CRM and calendar and projects and a bunch more. Kinda like, I dunno, clinked, huddle, yammer, podio kinda thing but with the document editors also built in.

Well it's free for one, and runs locally.

I suppose in some small business environments, having those web-based file management thingies available would be a benefit. Don't have to buy an office suite, or rent one, or even need general internet access. Perhaps in more secure environments? Home servers? Small businesses that can't afford "enterprise" monthly fees?

I dunno, seemed interesting. The screenshots of their tools seem pretty advanced, not like a basic word processor in other words.

http://www.onlyoffice.org/

Free, open source web office, installed on own systems. Gives web based docs, spreadsheet, presentation, files, email, collab stuff, etc etc.

I suppose it's akin to the poor man's Google docs or MS office or even Zoho.

Just wondering if anybody has used it.

I'm new to the forums, came over from Spiceworks by recommendation.

Small time IT here, dabbling in hardware, software, programming, web design, Adobe, video, photography, and generally complain about dysfunctional stuff a lot.