Just How Hard is University to Overcome
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
OK so I watched the video - and my first question is - of all people going to college, how many of them do you think fit the mold of the pool that you're talking about ...
This bit doesn't matter. Because what does matter is that it is 100% of the people of whom we are ever talking about. Whether this number is 1% or 80% of potential university goers is irrelevant. It's all of the people that you will ever talk to about this. Because someone who has to go to school there is no discussion to have. People who can't there is no discussion to have. People who are going for non-career reasons it's obvious that the discussion is nonsensical. Only those pondering how to advance their career are in the pool and are 100% who we are discussing.
So where it matters, it's 100%.
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@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
OK so I watched the video - and my first question is - of all people going to college, how many of them do you think fit the mold of the pool that you're talking about ...
This bit doesn't matter. Because what does matter is that it is 100% of the people of whom we are ever talking about. Whether this number is 1% or 80% of potential university goers is irrelevant. It's all of the people that you will ever talk to about this. Because someone who has to go to school there is no discussion to have. People who can't there is no discussion to have. People who are going for non-career reasons it's obvious that the discussion is nonsensical. Only those pondering how to advance their career are in the pool and are 100% who we are discussing.
So where it matters, it's 100%.
I know it doesn't matter in this specific context, but it does matter in the general conversation about college attendance. For example, is most people going to college have no clue where they are going for a career, then college in general, i.e. for the masses, might be a good thing. And IF that's the case, then I think a short mentioning of something like that should be included in these topics to help remind people that these topics are specific to those who know their goal and are working toward it. Of course, just stating that along should be enough, but come on - we come back to this point of a narrow group of people we are talking about so often that including this specific bit should help get rid of the constant ask.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
... - and additionally, please provide a list of at least 5 careers that can be good financially without college.
Possible careers I can think of
IT - duh
programmer/developer
entreprenuer- IT
- Bench
- Software Engineering
- Financial Advisers
- Human Resources
- Bookkeeping and non-tax accounting
- Office Management
- Management
- Project Management (PM is not a management field)
- Investment Banking
- Restaurateur
- Hospitality Management
- Music (Non-education)
- Graphic Arts
- Chemist
- Any manual skill field from welding to metal working, etc.
- Manufacturing specialists
- Mathematician
- Business Analyst
- Data Scientist
- Logistics specialist
- Healthcare Management
- Lawyer in a few remaining states
- Nurse in most states
- Teacher in private schools
- Professor
- Politician
- Pilot
- Writer
- Photographer
- Journalist
- Engineer (non-civil)
- Venture Capitalist
- Trader
- Entrepreneur
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
I know it doesn't matter in this specific context, but it does matter in the general conversation about college attendance. For example, is most people going to college have no clue where they are going for a career, then college in general, i.e. for the masses, might be a good thing.
That's not a good reading of that data. Even if you don't know what you want to do, you can still advance your career options faster not being in school than being in it. University will not expose you to career options, but will, in fact, hold you back and waste your time at a point where it is most critical that you figure that stuff out.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
And IF that's the case, then I think a short mentioning of something like that should be included in these topics to help remind people that these topics are specific to those who know their goal and are working toward it.
If their goal is "going to university to promote career earnings" then they apply. If they are going to university knowing that they will never earn more money, then the title of the thread alone tells them that.
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I don't believe some on your list.
I'll pick healthcare management.
Because of the good'ol boy problem, it seems unlikely you could find a healthcare facility that would like to hire a management position with no college. but, of course, I could be wrong.
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
I don't believe some on your list.
I'll pick healthcare management.
Because of the good'ol boy problem, it seems unlikely you could find a healthcare facility that would like to hire a management position with no college. but, of course, I could be wrong.
What's funny is you immediately pick one I got into without a degree. I've done a lot on the list and they are beyond question because I've seen it first hand. I've been hospital management without a degree, so has @Eric
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@dashrender said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Because of the good'ol boy problem...
Actually that would make it easier. Get a job regardless of qualifications.
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@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@brrabill said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Gotta say that's not where I thought the whole doctor question was going...
Where did you think that it was going?
Someplace talked about how bad the physician profession is.
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@brrabill said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@scottalanmiller said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@brrabill said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
Gotta say that's not where I thought the whole doctor question was going...
Where did you think that it was going?
Someplace talked about how bad the physician profession is.
Good or bad, this is just career questions, though. And physicians are very skewing to the numbers because they stay in school for forever, then make a huge income once they are out, for a very short career. So they make the income sound great, but often don't earn that much.
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Something a lot of people miss as well is that making $50K / year for 40 years is way better than making $100K / year for 20 years because of taxes. You'll pay far, far higher percentages in taxes for the same income. Same thing for college grads. Because they compress their earnings into a shorter career lifespan, and rely on higher annual income, they pay a higher tax rate for that.
So higher taxes and working against the time value of money. It adds up.
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I wish I had invested a portion of my college fund, also wish I didn't waste 6 years of my life and loan debt on a degree I won't use....but hindsight is 20/20.
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@biglittle said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
I wish I had invested a portion of my college fund, also wish I didn't waste 6 years of my life and loan debt on a degree I won't use....but hindsight is 20/20.
I'm right there with you.
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I was lucky that my tuition was super low, and I commuted.
I also stopped going to class to work in the computer repair shop.
So yeah, I might have missed out on some money making opportunities, but hey I got to be a pretty decent Mortal Kombat player.
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In Missouri, we have what is called the A+ program. HS kids go through a program and have to meet certain requirements. Once they do, their first two years of college at a community college is free. My kids are doing this.
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@penguinwrangler said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
In Missouri, we have what is called the A+ program. HS kids go through a program and have to meet certain requirements. Once they do, their first two years of college at a community college is free. My kids are doing this.
It's not just cost though. It's also invested time. Time spent on a college campus is time not earning money.
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@coliver said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@penguinwrangler said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
In Missouri, we have what is called the A+ program. HS kids go through a program and have to meet certain requirements. Once they do, their first two years of college at a community college is free. My kids are doing this.
It's not just cost though. It's also invested time. Time spent on a college campus is time not earning money.
I don't even want to think about the hours I spent at my first degree....
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@coliver True but my kids will be working while going to college. They know that is expected of them.
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@quixoticjeremy said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@coliver said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@penguinwrangler said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
In Missouri, we have what is called the A+ program. HS kids go through a program and have to meet certain requirements. Once they do, their first two years of college at a community college is free. My kids are doing this.
It's not just cost though. It's also invested time. Time spent on a college campus is time not earning money.
I don't even want to think about the hours I spent at my first degree....
I calculated two semesters at grad school. It was 80-90 hours a week.
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@coliver said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@quixoticjeremy said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@coliver said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
@penguinwrangler said in Just How Hard is University to Overcome:
In Missouri, we have what is called the A+ program. HS kids go through a program and have to meet certain requirements. Once they do, their first two years of college at a community college is free. My kids are doing this.
It's not just cost though. It's also invested time. Time spent on a college campus is time not earning money.
I don't even want to think about the hours I spent at my first degree....
I calculated two semesters at grad school. It was 80-90 hours a week.
My first degree was Vocal performance at the #3 undergrad (at the time) school for music. My average was 22 credit hour semesters and if you know music degrees, every rehearsal, practice, and many of the classes are 0 credit hours. My first class started at 7 am each semester and I was in bed around 1-2 am every night (not including late night study benders etc).
