Mac Users...
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@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
I thought it might be related because of how the application gets handled. Shitty programming might get handled differently on Exchange I figured.
It interfaces at the protocol. The language and implementation are totally hidden. It's like saying you would not understand words from one typewriter versus another. But no matter how nice and crappy a typewriter is, it doesn't change the words around.
Makes sense. Thanks. If you had to come up with one logical guess, what would that be? It should be as simple as it doesn't work properly, but I need something. :l
Nope, it simply doesn't work properly. There isn't another answer. Whatever format it sends to Exchange isn't correct. It's an Exchange protocol and it works for everyone else, so we know that the issue is that Apple Mail simply sends garbage to Exchange. Garbage in, garbage out.
The messed up format that you see IS what Apple Mail is sending. That's all the more there is to it.
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If you need a good analogy to use, try this...
You have an English speaker and hundreds of French speakers. You have decided that the lingua Franca (ha ha) in the office is French. Whenever the English speaker tries to speak French, he tends to say the right words but pronounce them wrong or get them in the wrong order - he just doesn't quite know French completely.
Now the manager keeps asking the French speakers why the English speaker keeps getting it wrong.
There is no answer other than... he doesn't speak French fluently and gets it wrong.
Apple Mail is getting the language wrong, not enough for the mail to fail, but enough that it doesn't look right.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
I thought it might be related because of how the application gets handled. Shitty programming might get handled differently on Exchange I figured.
It interfaces at the protocol. The language and implementation are totally hidden. It's like saying you would not understand words from one typewriter versus another. But no matter how nice and crappy a typewriter is, it doesn't change the words around.
Makes sense. Thanks. If you had to come up with one logical guess, what would that be? It should be as simple as it doesn't work properly, but I need something. :l
Nope, it simply doesn't work properly. There isn't another answer. Whatever format it sends to Exchange isn't correct. It's an Exchange protocol and it works for everyone else, so we know that the issue is that Apple Mail simply sends garbage to Exchange. Garbage in, garbage out.
The messed up format that you see IS what Apple Mail is sending. That's all the more there is to it.
That makes sense... I didn't know what area the garbage was. Garbage programming? Garbage protocol? You already said it isn't related to garbage programming, it's part of the protocol. I'm guessing something in the application layer where it would be handled, or...?
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@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
I thought it might be related because of how the application gets handled. Shitty programming might get handled differently on Exchange I figured.
It interfaces at the protocol. The language and implementation are totally hidden. It's like saying you would not understand words from one typewriter versus another. But no matter how nice and crappy a typewriter is, it doesn't change the words around.
Makes sense. Thanks. If you had to come up with one logical guess, what would that be? It should be as simple as it doesn't work properly, but I need something. :l
Nope, it simply doesn't work properly. There isn't another answer. Whatever format it sends to Exchange isn't correct. It's an Exchange protocol and it works for everyone else, so we know that the issue is that Apple Mail simply sends garbage to Exchange. Garbage in, garbage out.
The messed up format that you see IS what Apple Mail is sending. That's all the more there is to it.
That makes sense... I didn't know what area the garbage was. Garbage programming? Garbage protocol? You already said it isn't related to garbage programming, it's part of the protocol. I'm guessing something in the application layer where it would be handled, or...?
Well yes, the protocol is generated by the Apple Mail application's code. So when Apple wrote it, they wrote it wrong.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
I thought it might be related because of how the application gets handled. Shitty programming might get handled differently on Exchange I figured.
It interfaces at the protocol. The language and implementation are totally hidden. It's like saying you would not understand words from one typewriter versus another. But no matter how nice and crappy a typewriter is, it doesn't change the words around.
Makes sense. Thanks. If you had to come up with one logical guess, what would that be? It should be as simple as it doesn't work properly, but I need something. :l
Nope, it simply doesn't work properly. There isn't another answer. Whatever format it sends to Exchange isn't correct. It's an Exchange protocol and it works for everyone else, so we know that the issue is that Apple Mail simply sends garbage to Exchange. Garbage in, garbage out.
The messed up format that you see IS what Apple Mail is sending. That's all the more there is to it.
That makes sense... I didn't know what area the garbage was. Garbage programming? Garbage protocol? You already said it isn't related to garbage programming, it's part of the protocol. I'm guessing something in the application layer where it would be handled, or...?
Well yes, the protocol is generated by the Apple Mail application's code. So when Apple wrote it, they wrote it wrong.
Like most of their interfaces they write. ActiveSync on iDevices causes sync issues for my docs at least once a year. I have to completely delete Exchange from their device, run a calendar cleanup on Exchange, then readd it to the mobile.
Sux!
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
I thought it might be related because of how the application gets handled. Shitty programming might get handled differently on Exchange I figured.
It interfaces at the protocol. The language and implementation are totally hidden. It's like saying you would not understand words from one typewriter versus another. But no matter how nice and crappy a typewriter is, it doesn't change the words around.
Makes sense. Thanks. If you had to come up with one logical guess, what would that be? It should be as simple as it doesn't work properly, but I need something. :l
Nope, it simply doesn't work properly. There isn't another answer. Whatever format it sends to Exchange isn't correct. It's an Exchange protocol and it works for everyone else, so we know that the issue is that Apple Mail simply sends garbage to Exchange. Garbage in, garbage out.
The messed up format that you see IS what Apple Mail is sending. That's all the more there is to it.
That makes sense... I didn't know what area the garbage was. Garbage programming? Garbage protocol? You already said it isn't related to garbage programming, it's part of the protocol. I'm guessing something in the application layer where it would be handled, or...?
Well yes, the protocol is generated by the Apple Mail application's code. So when Apple wrote it, they wrote it wrong.
Like most of their interfaces they write. ActiveSync on iDevices causes sync issues for my docs at least once a year. I have to completely delete Exchange from their device, run a calendar cleanup on Exchange, then readd it to the mobile.
Sux!
Yup, they wrote their own SMB implementation and broke that too in Finder.
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@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
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@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
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Why doesn't diesel fuel work in my gasoline car? they are both liquid and come from oil, right?
lol -
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer. You are there to maintain the infrastructure and it's designed to be a windows shop. If they want to move to an Apple shop then offer them the figures. There are a good amount of things you can't do with an apple product on a windows domain. I wish I could give you some ammo but I literally deal with this by saying "I don't support personal devices" and "use a windows machine".
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@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
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@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Their expectations are the problem. Users typically think we know everything about every product ever and the reality is we are human. We only have experience with what we have experience with. I deal with this every day. I run into problems with the higher ups because they expect me to have instant answers. Technology changes so much that every few months I have to research it again. You can't give good answers on the spot--you can just give answers. There's a big difference.
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@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
I think Scott's one english speaker in a house of French speakers is a great explanation - does it work sorta - sure, is it perfect, nope? why not? because apple, like the english speaker, hasn't bothered to follow the specs for talking to an Exchange server correctly/fully. Instead, like the english speaker, they choose to do a half has job.
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@wirestyle22 said:
Technology changes so much that every few months I have to research it again. You can't give good answers on the spot--you can just give answers. There's a big difference.
I wish I could upvote this 1,048,576 more times.
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@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Their expectations are the problem. Users typically think we know everything about every product ever and the reality is we are human.
I can see it now... "Well, maybe we should get someone in here with a little more expertise. Someone who knows a little more on these kinds of subjects."
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@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Their expectations are the problem. Users typically think we know everything about every product ever and the reality is we are human.
I can see it now... "Well, maybe we should get someone in here with a little more expertise. Someone who knows a little more on these kinds of subjects."
Go ahead, the technology just changed last week. So the most experienced person in xxxxx will have 1 weeks worth of experience.
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@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Their expectations are the problem. Users typically think we know everything about every product ever and the reality is we are human.
I can see it now... "Well, maybe we should get someone in here with a little more expertise. Someone who knows a little more on these kinds of subjects."
I don't know your situation and I'm not here to tell you what to do but my impression of you is someone who is knowledgeable about a good amount of things. More knowledgeable than I am that's for sure. I'm sure you can find a better job with better employers. I'm being a huge hypocrite right now by saying that because a lot of people on ML have said the same thing about me but it's true. Maybe this place isn't the place for you. They can't ask you to hammer a square into a triangle.
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@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Which also means that they won't understand and the research is going to be pointless. It's a bug, Apple hasn't fixed it.
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@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Their expectations are the problem. Users typically think we know everything about every product ever and the reality is we are human.
I can see it now... "Well, maybe we should get someone in here with a little more expertise. Someone who knows a little more on these kinds of subjects."
And you should respond "good and maybe I'll do the same and find managers who know how to do their jobs". This is a management problem. It sounds like an issue endemic as the CEO seems to be the clueless one here about how to run a business. Expecting the impossible and making your staff fear that you will react as a pissed off monkey just wildly flinging poo because this is all "too much for them to understand" doesn't speak highly of the CEO. Basically you fear that he is completely incompetent in how to manage. That you fear that... says a lot.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@BBigford You have a hammer. The hammer is designed to hammer nails into a wall. You can hammer screws into the wall but is it going to be as effective? No. Screws are not designed to be used in that way. It'll sort of work just like Apple Mail sort of works.
I can't believe you have to have this conversation. I feel for you dude.
Thanks. I'm also the type that brings everything to the table in a conversation. When people are extremely difficult and won't accept "It just doesn't work that way" I try and be prepared rather than say "I'll go back and do research..."
Some people just won't accept certain truths.
The reality is that you are a sysadmin, not a programmer.
Exactly. Which is why I was having a tough time grasping precisely what was being handled wrong. I am not a programmer, but didn't want to just point the ugly finger at "COOOOOOODE!!!!"
Their expectations are the problem. Users typically think we know everything about every product ever and the reality is we are human.
I can see it now... "Well, maybe we should get someone in here with a little more expertise. Someone who knows a little more on these kinds of subjects."
And you should respond "good and maybe I'll do the same and find managers who know how to do their jobs". This is a management problem. It sounds like an issue endemic as the CEO seems to be the clueless one here about how to run a business. Expecting the impossible and making your staff fear that you will react as a pissed off monkey just wildly flinging poo because this is all "too much for them to understand" doesn't speak highly of the CEO. Basically you fear that he is completely incompetent in how to manage. That you fear that... says a lot.
I wouldn't say he's incompetent. I didn't mean to come off that way. I just want to be prepared because I've saw people get fired for less. Am I a bit on the nervous side? A bit, yeah. But I was looking for a job when I found this one. Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to leave, even if the pay is good enough not to look for another job right now.
