What BASH and SSH Mean for Windows Systems Administration
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I've worked at several companies where it's against company policy to discuss salary with other employees.
This is how you know that they are scared that people will find out how badly they pay. It's a means of depressing wages.
only against those that already work there.
Hear the following fable once a long time ago.
Guy gets a job at a newspaper, before being hired, the hiring manager asks he what he needs for a salary. Guy replies $30K and the hiring manager agrees. Serveral months goes by, Guy likes his job. A short while later Guy learns that Steve who does the same job as him (with no accounting for performance based incentives) is earning $45K. Guy goes to the hiring manager and asks why he's getting paid so much less than other people in his department?
This is where I'm going to stop - I really want to know what Scott's answer would be, and anyone else who wants to chime in.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I've worked at several companies where it's against company policy to discuss salary with other employees.
This is how you know that they are scared that people will find out how badly they pay. It's a means of depressing wages.
only against those that already work there.
Hear the following fable once a long time ago.
Guy gets a job at a newspaper, before being hired, the hiring manager asks he what he needs for a salary. Guy replies $30K and the hiring manager agrees. Serveral months goes by, Guy likes his job. A short while later Guy learns that Steve who does the same job as him (with no accounting for performance based incentives) is earning $45K. Guy goes to the hiring manager and asks why he's getting paid so much less than other people in his department?
This is where I'm going to stop - I really want to know what Scott's answer would be, and anyone else who wants to chime in.
Because he asked for it. If you don't know how much you and you're time are worth then you get what is offered.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I've worked at several companies where it's against company policy to discuss salary with other employees.
This is how you know that they are scared that people will find out how badly they pay. It's a means of depressing wages.
only against those that already work there.
Hear the following fable once a long time ago.
Guy gets a job at a newspaper, before being hired, the hiring manager asks he what he needs for a salary. Guy replies $30K and the hiring manager agrees. Serveral months goes by, Guy likes his job. A short while later Guy learns that Steve who does the same job as him (with no accounting for performance based incentives) is earning $45K. Guy goes to the hiring manager and asks why he's getting paid so much less than other people in his department?
This is where I'm going to stop - I really want to know what Scott's answer would be, and anyone else who wants to chime in.
That's fine. And the answer can be... because you negotiated for less. There doesn't need to be any answer, no one owes him more than that. There isn't any entitlement to being paid the same as someone else. That's not a thing.
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@coliver said:
Because he asked for it. If you don't know how much you and you're time are worth then you get what is
offered. accepted. -
@scottalanmiller said:
The thing about the US is not that employees don't have rights, they actually have a lot of rights and a lot of protections, but Americans all believe that somehow capitalism means no rights
Eh? People actually blame capitalism for them having no rights? I know I hang out with starter than average people, so perhaps I'm shielded from this belief - but damn!
I've worked lots of places that tried to tell employees that their earned vacation time and other benefits were not rights but "privileges", a common American phrase used when breaking the law or violating civil rights, and violate their employment and salary rights.
Yeah sadly, there are many bad business owners out there
What's worse is people believe them.I see it constantly, and lots of employees really believe that they are powerless and that things like minimum wage or earned salary aren't due to them!
Now I don't know anyone who doesn't believe they are due at least minimum wage.
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The existing employee is free to renogiate his job. And the company is free to pay more, hold steady, pay less, let him go, etc. They are all free to do whatever. If he was talking to other companies, he should know what he is worth, or pretty close to it, already. If he is only finding out his value from his coworkers, that's his own fault.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The thing about the US is not that employees don't have rights, they actually have a lot of rights and a lot of protections, but Americans all believe that somehow capitalism means no rights
Eh? People actually blame capitalism for them having no rights? I know I hang out with starter than average people, so perhaps I'm shielded from this belief - but damn!
Blame is a strong word. Most of them like it and try to act like it is a good thing. Because what I see is a strong love of anti-capitalism or fake capitalism like the healthcare stuff... there is no capitalism there, that's just corruption. But people love it, so they embrace it even though it hurts them.
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@Dashrender said:
Now I don't know anyone who doesn't believe they are due at least minimum wage.
Actually, minimum wage is a myth. Thanks to unions you can be forced to go below it!
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@tonyshowoff said:
Or to other people. "Healthcare is a privilege, not a right" I think is the ultimate extreme of this same sort of mindset. The common expression is "F you, I got mine," except it's usually "F you, I don't have it either, but you don't deserve it."
OK I'm slowly coming to agree with Scott (and perhaps others) on a national healthcare setup. To me it's not an F you, it's a look at the current situation - it's not a service provided by the government, it's provided privately - and privately you have no rights to goods or services at the expense of someone else. So if it's going to happen, it's got to go full blown Uncle Sam is covering it (yeah via taxes), but everyone is on the same playing field.
I have asked a lot of older Americans who talk about "working hard means you get more" that if they had worked harder, do they believe they would've been millionaires instead of struggling on social security or still working at 65 or whatever, believe it or not, many say "yes." It's really strange.
I'm not sure what the issue is here? Other than working harder - getting more education that enables you to changing careers into one that earns more - what other options do they have to have previously earned more? Would they be millionaires? probably not, but they don't need to be either to be much better off.
Yet, most Americans still feel they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"
Interesting - don't agree, but interesting.
However, if you were born a millionaire and inherited your money, most will probably praise you for working hard.
That might be true of the millionaires looking at millionaires - I certainly don't look at those who inherited money has having worked hard - hell, most of the time it's the exact opposite.
I am a millionaire and I hate every other millionaire I know, except one, he's an old friend.
What are you doing here then?
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@Dashrender said:
I'm not sure what the issue is here? Other than working harder - getting more education that enables you to changing careers into one that earns more - what other options do they have to have previously earned more? Would they be millionaires? probably not, but they don't need to be either to be much better off.
Degrees are known to hurt your chances, not increase them. Getting those low earners to go to college is actually part of the system keeping them poor!
mostly the rich get rich because of connections, being lucky or being really smart. Only the last of those is really a good thing.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@tonyshowoff said:
Or to other people. "Healthcare is a privilege, not a right" I think is the ultimate extreme of this same sort of mindset. The common expression is "F you, I got mine," except it's usually "F you, I don't have it either, but you don't deserve it."
Yes, there is a weird cultural thing where people feel that it might be unfair if someone else gets something that they might not deserve and being willing to not have it ourselves to keep others from getting it.
I'll agree that the
"F you, I don't have it either, but you don't deserve it."
mindset is out there, but I don't think it applies to healthcare by the masses. Tons of other things, sure, Lamborghini's etc. but not healthcare - I think most people would be happy to see everyone get care when they are sick.
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@Dashrender said:
Yet, most Americans still feel they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"
Interesting - don't agree, but interesting.
This is a widely stated thing. I've known about this as the "American problem" since the 80s when I was in middle school. Maybe it is wrong, but it is very widely excepted and fits the behaviour.
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@Dashrender said:
mindset is out there, but I don't think it applies to healthcare by the masses. Tons of other things, sure, Lamborghini's etc. but not healthcare - I think most people would be happy to see everyone get care when they are sick.
The voting says very, very much otherwise. Nearly everyone that I've seen state that they are not in favour of nationalised healthcare says it for this reason - they don't want to be paying for other people who get sick. I see constantly people saying that they don't think we should take care of the sick unless the sick are rich enough to cover it themselves.
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@Dashrender said:
That might be true of the millionaires looking at millionaires - I certainly don't look at those who inherited money has having worked hard - hell, most of the time it's the exact opposite.
Haven't you looked at the recent Trump populism? He is not a good businessman, he has never worked hard, he inherited his money from his father and squandered a significant amount if it. Yet people seem to equate wealth with intelligence.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
That might be true of the millionaires looking at millionaires - I certainly don't look at those who inherited money has having worked hard - hell, most of the time it's the exact opposite.
Haven't you looked at the recent Trump populism? He is not a good businessman, he has never worked hard, he inherited his money from his father and squandered a significant amount if it. Yet seem to equate wealth with intelligence.
And he is running on the campaign of hating your neighbours. Things like not wanting the poor to get healthcare.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I've seen studies on that. Something about how America is so sold as the land of opportunity and all of the media and this goes back a hundred years or more and how people are so completely sold the idea that they will eventually be super rich and because of that they will vote to empower the rich and oppress themselves not realizing that they are voting for and heavily supporting the barriers that keep them from getting rich themselves (or you know, just getting basic healthcare.)
LOL - this goes straight to the saying that Benjamin Franklin said “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” . I have a hard time not looking at healthcare in this light. This is voting to take money away from other to give themselves something. Now, all of the other benefits that Scott's mentioned in the past are what are starting me make me move on this point.. but the rest is still true. If the voters realized that they could vote themselves lower taxes, or high wages through law - things are definitely in for a major change - sadly they just don't realize it.
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@Dashrender said:
LOL - this goes straight to the saying that Benjamin Franklin said “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” .
Or my quote... this is exactly what a Republic implies.
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@Dashrender said:
OK I'm slowly coming to agree with Scott (and perhaps others) on a national healthcare setup. To me it's not an F you, it's a look at the current situation - it's not a service provided by the government, it's provided privately - and privately you have no rights to goods or services at the expense of someone else. So if it's going to happen, it's got to go full blown Uncle Sam is covering it (yeah via taxes), but everyone is on the same playing field.
The idea of "healthcare is a privilege, not a right" is not a way to discuss currently what exists, but to defend it, despite the fact it is not superior, and not only that the attitude is rather dark.
I'm not sure what the issue is here? Other than working harder - getting more education that enables you to changing careers into one that earns more - what other options do they have to have previously earned more? Would they be millionaires? probably not, but they don't need to be either to be much better off.
The issue is believing that you too can be a millionaire and all wealthy people lying to you, will make you more likely to accept poor pay and treatment, and that instead of improving the job (or jobs) you do have or can get, you hold out for that one day. It's not just "probably not", but "almost certainly not." Delusions don't help anyone.
Interesting - don't agree, but interesting.
I'm not sure how else to explain American attitudes toward capitalism then, essentially it's "everyone else has to pull up their bootstraps, but I am different because I work hard, and one day it'll pay off," but it won't.
That might be true of the millionaires looking at millionaires - I certainly don't look at those who inherited money has having worked hard - hell, most of the time it's the exact opposite.
Maybe not you, but a lot of people look at it that way, especially if they use that money to start a business. Starting a business with a lot of money is a lot easier than starting it from the absolute bottom.
What are you doing here then?
On Mangolassi or in Russia? The answer to both is "because I want to be."
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@Dashrender said:
If the voters realized that they could vote themselves lower taxes, or high wages through law - things are definitely in for a major change - sadly they just don't realize it.
Actually they do... try. When the poor and uneducated try to vote that way they get tricked and vote themselves less. Hatred breeds ignorance and ignorance will be manipulated.
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Someone recently posted on Facebook how much money it would cost me every week to fund Bernie's universal healthcare, universal education, higher wages, and such.
And my thought was.... damn, who total ass would not be willing to spend that little money to make life so much better for so many people.
And yet... most people feel that way.
And the post didn't mention how much less taxes were needed for the whole plan, it was a fake, inflated number to make it look bad and, in reality, it showed just how smart the plan is that even the fake inflated numbers can't make it look bad.
