Apple is fighting the FBI
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm guessing that Apple took the privacy part away for non US, it would barely matter to most.
I think you'd find once there is a breach in privacy concerns, it would be seen as gone.
Where is the breach though?
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@MattSpeller said:
@MattSpeller said:
Your wording was:
I'm guessing that Apple took the privacy part away for non US, it would barely matter to most.
Besides - if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. If apple wants to fight for encryption they should do it for everyone and do some good in the world.
I missed the work if - I'm guessing that if Apple took privacy part away for non US...
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm guessing that Apple took the privacy part away for non US, it would barely matter to most.
I think you'd find once there is a breach in privacy concerns, it would be seen as gone.
Where is the breach though?
The breach is what we are talking about - Apple disabling the privacy system.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm guessing that Apple took the privacy part away for non US, it would barely matter to most.
I think you'd find once there is a breach in privacy concerns, it would be seen as gone.
Where is the breach though?
The breach is what we are talking about - Apple disabling the privacy system.
If it's done voluntarily, it's not a breach.
also I see now that I choose poor words to express my intent. It wasn't my intent to express that Apple could/would completely through privacy to the wind, but instead they that they would/could deploy software that didn't have the 10 wrong passcodes = deleted encryption key, plus the ability for someone in physical possession of the device to be able to brute force it as fast as the machine the phone was attached to could supply guesses.
The rest of the privacy guards would still be in place.
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@Dashrender said:
The rest of the privacy guards would still be in place.
But the rest isn't very private.
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@Dashrender said:
If it's done voluntarily, it's not a breach.
That's not completely true. If it is done under pressure that can be duress, extortion or social engineering. All considered breaches.
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I can't recall where I read it now but the bottom line is device manufacturers need to make them difficult to break into as far as that's actually possible. Then there's no 'I can do this but I don't want to please don't make me" garbage.
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@MattSpeller said:
I can't recall where I read it now but the bottom line is device manufacturers need to make them difficult to break into as far as that's actually possible. Then there's no 'I can do this but I don't want to please don't make me" garbage.
Sure, but laws can be passed that don't allow them to sell such devices. Those laws are being talked about right now in the US, and I'm sure other countries.
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@Dashrender said:
Sure, but laws can be passed that don't allow them to sell such devices. Those laws are being talked about right now in the US, and I'm sure other countries.
But they make for REALLY strong barriers to laws. And open source can't be stopped by law. And freedom of speech trumps laws until they repeal the entire government.
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Someone suggested to me yesterday that one facet of this case that appears unconstitutional is the government requiring a company to make something so the government can get their access. He didn't express how it was unconstitutional - only that it was.
Thoughts?
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Having now heard about how Apple deploys updates to devices, and that simply having a version of iOS that has weakened security doesn't mean hackers or even the government can put this software onto a device:
quick break while I regurgitate my understanding of how it works.
Apple creates weakened version
Puts weakened version in Apple update repository assigned only to the Serial Number of the device in question.
The device makes a request to the update repository - sending both it's Serial Number and a NONCE. Apple signs the Serial Number and NONCE with it's own private key (the device presumably has a copy of the public key, or can get it from a trusted source)
The device downloads the assigned update and installs it
So, with that in mind, assuming the government has already found a way to download the software in an iphone, the government could create their own weakened version and get a court order for Apple to hand over their private key.
This already has precedence with the demand they made on LavaBit for their private key.
Discuss.
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@Dashrender said:
Someone suggested to me yesterday that one facet of this case that appears unconstitutional is the government requiring a company to make something so the government can get their access. He didn't express how it was unconstitutional - only that it was.
Thoughts?
Seems unconstitutional in that the constitution gives no allowance of the government to require companies to build products on their behalf. Any power not given by the constitution is forbidden by it.
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Since code is speech, forcing someone to code would violate free speech.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Someone suggested to me yesterday that one facet of this case that appears unconstitutional is the government requiring a company to make something so the government can get their access. He didn't express how it was unconstitutional - only that it was.
Thoughts?
Seems unconstitutional in that the constitution gives no allowance of the government to require companies to build products on their behalf. Any power not given by the constitution is forbidden by it.
Love it! Still not sure how they used the commerce clause to get a fee put on everyone for not having health insurance. - moving on -
OK given that, let's move to my second post. Apple has already created the Public/Private key - so they can just demand that, and use their own code (or demand a copy of Apples current version so they, the government, can modify it).
thoughts?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Since code is speech, forcing someone to code would violate free speech.
I've heard this before, but I'm not sure on the court's opinion on the matter. But assuming they agree with you - how is this case not already thrown out?
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@Dashrender said:
Love it! Still not sure how they used the commerce clause to get a fee put on everyone for not having health insurance. - moving on -
It's not a fee, it's a tax and congress has the right to tax. Why they tax the poor and not the rich, that's its own issue. But healthcare is a straight tax, very simple, totally within their right to levy same as any tax.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Since code is speech, forcing someone to code would violate free speech.
I've heard this before, but I'm not sure on the court's opinion on the matter. But assuming they agree with you - how is this case not already thrown out?
Because a Judge who doesn't understand this has said Apple needs to hack the phone.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Since code is speech, forcing someone to code would violate free speech.
I've heard this before, but I'm not sure on the court's opinion on the matter. But assuming they agree with you - how is this case not already thrown out?
Because it hasn't actually made it to court yet?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Since code is speech, forcing someone to code would violate free speech.
I've heard this before, but I'm not sure on the court's opinion on the matter. But assuming they agree with you - how is this case not already thrown out?
Because the law isn't very strong in the US. The country is very litigious but the strength of law is low.
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@dafyre said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Since code is speech, forcing someone to code would violate free speech.
I've heard this before, but I'm not sure on the court's opinion on the matter. But assuming they agree with you - how is this case not already thrown out?
Because it hasn't actually made it to court yet?
That too, no court involved.
