ML
    • Recent
    • Categories
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Register
    • Login

    Web Application VS Windows Application

    IT Discussion
    programming
    17
    450
    117.4k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • I
      IT-ADMIN
      last edited by

      now i only need to learn well about one good ORM in order to be able to convince him, currently i'm studying doctrine2 and laravel, if i understand them well and after testing them in my test project, that time i can demonstrate to him how to use it and the benefits we can get behind using it,

      S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • S
        scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
        last edited by

        @IT-ADMIN said:

        my collegue want to use the traditional method of creating tables manually and doing everything manual, till now i try to convince him to use modern technologies, i even showed him this forum and your replies about the advantages of using modern technologies, he told me these guys have more experience, but we in our situation we are considered beginners and we should know all details of our projects in order to learn and understand staff in details

        That's exactly what so many newbies say.... "Well, these people have experience and know what we need, but we'll do something else because we are sure that the fact that we don't know means that we know better than those that do know."

        It's insane. It's the same logic that people going to college often use - instead of getting advice from people successful in their field, they go to people who can't work in that field or have failed at it and get advice from them because it is often "feel good" advice instead of useful advice. It makes no sense.

        Our advice is based on the level of knowledge and experience that you have. His logic indicates that he should not be allowed to be in a role of decision making at all, it's a horribly dangerous thought process. He knows when good advice has been given and intentionally does something bad just to fail.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • S
          scottalanmiller @dafyre
          last edited by

          @dafyre said:

          @IT-ADMIN said:

          my collegue want to use the traditional method of creating tables manually and doing everything manual, till now i try to convince him to use modern technologies, i even showed him this forum and your replies about the advantages of using modern technologies, he told me these guys have more experience, but we in our situation we are considered beginners and we should know all details of our projects in order to learn and understand staff in details

          It seems to me that you have a good understanding of the data that will go into your system, if you already know how the database will be structured and all that. What your colleague is wanting to do is spend time writing and debugging code that handles the CRUD (create,read,update,delete) functions.

          My question for him, is "Why would you want to re-invent the wheel?"

          Apparently, for it's own sake.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • S
            scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
            last edited by

            @IT-ADMIN said:

            now i only need to learn well about one good ORM in order to be able to convince him, currently i'm studying doctrine2 and laravel, if i understand them well and after testing them in my test project, that time i can demonstrate to him how to use it and the benefits we can get behind using it,

            No, you should NOT need to find a good ORM. That's what we are saying.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • S
              scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              What you need to do is...

              • Figure out if you need relational data at all. We aren't even up to the point of talking frameworks yet.
              • Only look for frameworks, talking ORM means you've already missed the modern development boat, here.
              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • I
                IT-ADMIN
                last edited by

                our first model is the following, after that we gonna add more entity by the time

                by the way it is only the payroll model of our application

                0_1457022031548_Class Diagram (1).png

                S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • I
                  IT-ADMIN
                  last edited by

                  as far as i can see, the modern way is not to begin with modeling, isn't it??

                  S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • S
                    scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                    last edited by

                    @IT-ADMIN honestly, that doesn't look like it should be relational at all. This is a prime candidate for not being relational. Who suggested relational?

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • S
                      scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                      last edited by

                      @IT-ADMIN said:

                      as far as i can see, the modern way is not to begin with modeling, isn't it??

                      No, the modern way is not to model it at all. The framework models it for you.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • S
                        scottalanmiller
                        last edited by

                        If you do your own modelling and them try to use an ORM, that causes a ton of extra work, defeats much of the purpose of the modern systems and can easily introduce performance problems.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • I
                          IT-ADMIN
                          last edited by

                          why it should not be a relational DB, ??

                          S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • I
                            IT-ADMIN
                            last edited by

                            all entities are related to each other,

                            S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • S
                              scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                              last edited by

                              @IT-ADMIN said:

                              why it should not be a relational DB, ??

                              Because relational is not the default choice. Relational is heavy weight and slow. Extra effort, extra problems. If you don't need it, it's not good for you.

                              Nothing in the data that you has leverages a relational system really. It's perfect as a document.

                              I 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • S
                                scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                                last edited by

                                @IT-ADMIN said:

                                all entities are related to each other,

                                Yes, of course, but not in a way that suggests that a relational database is valuable. You have modelled the data correctly to use a relational database for it, but a relational database is incredibly inefficient here and unnecessarily strict. You aren't getting any benefits from the relationships. And as another thread covered... all data is relational. By the "rules of relationships" every CSV is relational data. That the data is "relational" is meaningless. It's that it is not useful in a relational database that matters. All databases have relationships.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • I
                                  IT-ADMIN @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said:

                                  @IT-ADMIN said:

                                  why it should not be a relational DB, ??

                                  Because relational is not the default choice. Relational is heavy weight and slow. Extra effort, extra problems. If you don't need it, it's not good for you.

                                  Nothing in the data that you has leverages a relational system really. It's perfect as a document.

                                  lol, you can't be serious, how we can know a specific card to whom it belong,
                                  i'm really in a state of lose,

                                  S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • S
                                    scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                                    last edited by

                                    @IT-ADMIN said:

                                    lol, you can't be serious, how we can know a specific card to whom it belong,
                                    i'm really in a state of lose,

                                    Card meaning, like passport? Well it depends what you use. But if you use a document database like MongoDB, you would either know that it was theirs because it would be contained within their document. Or you would have a key that associates them.

                                    You are confusing the idea of data that relates to other data and the usefulness of a relational database. They are rather different things.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • I
                                      IT-ADMIN
                                      last edited by

                                      the project is under construction, the entities will be added to this model by the time

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • S
                                        scottalanmiller
                                        last edited by

                                        Look at the post that you just wrote. The post is associated with you, right? The post and you have a relationship. Yet MangoLassi has no relational database. So clearly relationships in data are not lost by not using a relational database. You don't choose a relational database model because your data has relationships. Remember most systems should not be relational, but all data has relationships.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • S
                                          scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                                          last edited by

                                          @IT-ADMIN said:

                                          the project is under construction, the entities will be added to this model by the time

                                          But just like the passport, you would just add them in the user's document. Your data is really ideal for a document database.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • I
                                            IT-ADMIN
                                            last edited by

                                            really i have to learn about this point, because we have learned from the time of university one type of DB, relational DB, what are you saying is the first time i hear it, i have to take some time to contemplate about this, i will check my papers and i will resume

                                            to be continued ...

                                            S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 5
                                            • 6
                                            • 7
                                            • 8
                                            • 9
                                            • 22
                                            • 23
                                            • 7 / 23
                                            • First post
                                              Last post