HAProxy 1.6 Has Released
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@Dashrender said:
I have no idea if it's actually better. What's the support for the OS one? Just forums based, right? Not very helpful in an emergency.
I know of NO enterprise OS product in history that has no support but forums. That's something that theoretically just doesn't exist. Where there are products, there is support. Conceptually the "forum only" support model just has never happened and logically wont because there is too much market for providing support.
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@Dashrender said:
@Jason said:
Where's the support for Microsoft?
On the Server side? $250-300 per incident - and Fraking awesome in my experience.
Been a month with Office 365 not working. We've rarely had great Microsoft support experiences. Often they fail to fix things and stop trying until you go public and start posting about it. And even then it remains a challenge. They can have great support, but by and large, I know of no enterprise open source business in the same category. Microsoft stands alone at the very bottom of the support pile for business software.
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@Jason said:
@Dashrender said:
@Jason said:
Where's the support for Microsoft?
On the Server side? $250-300 per incident - and Fraking awesome in my experience.
You've actually used it? We even have people that used to be at MS on our staff that say that was one of their biggest money making scams.
Eh? I only pay for support when I need it. I didn't/don't have a support contract.
I've made 3 paid calls in the 20+ years I've been doing IT work for pay.
Two of them were the best support calls I've ever made. One, the tech was on the phone with me for 8 hours, then we took a break and got back on the phone for another 4.
I don't recall the details from call two.
The most recent call only wasn't a dream because MS didn't have enough support personal on staff when I called at 1 AM CDT. I had to wait for someone to come in at 3 AM because the other tech who was there was already on a call with someone else.
But, once that second tech arrived, we had my problem fixed within 1 hour.I consider this a pretty big success!
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@Dashrender said:
I had to wait for someone to come in at 3 AM because the other tech who was there was already on a call with someone else.
But, once that second tech arrived, we had my problem fixed within 1 hour.I consider this a pretty big success!
That depends, was the issue something that should have taken three hours to fix? Was the issue your fault and not theirs? Lots of factors. Nothing intrinsic about paying that kind of money and getting something fixed in three hours that makes it good or bad. None of the factors that would determine that are included here.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I had to wait for someone to come in at 3 AM because the other tech who was there was already on a call with someone else.
But, once that second tech arrived, we had my problem fixed within 1 hour.I consider this a pretty big success!
That depends, was the issue something that should have taken three hours to fix? Was the issue your fault and not theirs? Lots of factors. Nothing intrinsic about paying that kind of money and getting something fixed in three hours that makes it good or bad. None of the factors that would determine that are included here.
Your question is weird. - was the issue something that should have taken three hours to fix?
I'm not really sure how to respond... I'd like to say - uh well no of course not because I told you that it only took one hour or less to fix once I got the tech on the phone.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I had to wait for someone to come in at 3 AM because the other tech who was there was already on a call with someone else.
But, once that second tech arrived, we had my problem fixed within 1 hour.I consider this a pretty big success!
That depends, was the issue something that should have taken three hours to fix? Was the issue your fault and not theirs? Lots of factors. Nothing intrinsic about paying that kind of money and getting something fixed in three hours that makes it good or bad. None of the factors that would determine that are included here.
Your question is weird. - was the issue something that should have taken three hours to fix?
I'm not really sure how to respond... I'd like to say - uh well no of course not because I told you that it only took one hour or less to fix once I got the tech on the phone.
So what makes you consider the cost and the delay in response a success? What is the bar for success in a support case?
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@scottalanmiller said:
So what makes you consider the cost and the delay in response a success? What is the bar for success in a support case?
Aww, you're taking my last line
@Dashrender said:
I consider this a pretty big success!
To mean the last call was a success - no, OK that particular call was subpar at best... I was referring to calling MS in general a success - though I guess someone will argue that 2/3 calls to support being 'good' is perhaps not good enough. This is a point I won't argue either way. I will simply say I'm happy to continue using MS support for these types of problems.
I would perhaps consider using a consultant to fix these issues, but the reality is that they will cost many times what I paid MS to fix the issue. The first call that I spent 10+ hours on with them would have cost me over $2000 in consulting, and probably double that considering it was from midnight until until noon the next day. Instead it was only $250.
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@Dashrender said:
I would perhaps consider using a consultant to fix these issues, but the reality is that they will cost many times what I paid MS to fix the issue. The first call that I spent 10+ hours on with them would have cost me over $2000 in consulting, and probably double that considering it was from midnight until until noon the next day. Instead it was only $250.
That's true, but you almost get "fixit" support, not guidance from MS and it is an incident. So it makes you far more likely to have issues because they don't work to prevent them.
You'd have to compare to support from vendors like Red Hat to see what it can be like. RH support is fantastic.
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I don't understand.
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@Dashrender said:
I don't understand.
Support for a product is very different from "IT support." Not bad, not good, just a different thing. When you call MS or RH to support their own products you get charged very different rates and receive very different support than when you bring in a partner or consultant. Here are some differences:
- Vendor will only fix the vendor product, not other things that may or may not have led to the problem.
- Vendor is not going to offer advice based on what is learned (outside of specific product best practices, very limited in scope)
- Vendor support seems "cheap" because you provide the IT side of the support while they do the vendor portion. A consultant may or may not provide the vendor side or may engage them but handle the IT side as well. This isn't 100% of the time, but the vendors always need IT on the other side.
- Consultants can have broad scope to address issues far outside of just "fixing" something that is broken. Proactive, not exclusively reactive.
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Aww, yes. I recall the first issue was due to a driver update pulled from Windows Update. it just broke everything
I don't recall the reasons for the other calls.
It's possible that consultants could have made suggestions to prevent the issue from happening again, just don't know.
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@Dashrender said:
It's possible that consultants could have made suggestions to prevent the issue from happening again, just don't know.
Like WSUS to just do Security and feature updates not drivers.
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@Jason said:
@Dashrender said:
It's possible that consultants could have made suggestions to prevent the issue from happening again, just don't know.
Like WSUS to just do Security and feature updates not drivers.
OH HELL YEAH, now... ever since then I rarely allow Windows Update based drivers to be installed, if ever.
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@Dashrender said:
Aww, yes. I recall the first issue was due to a driver update pulled from Windows Update. it just broke everything
Right, so you were paying them to fix their own stuff that THEY broke! Considering you already paid them for the broken product, that means that they weren't supporting what they sold you. They charged you twice for the same thing.
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@Dashrender said:
It's possible that consultants could have made suggestions to prevent the issue from happening again, just don't know.
Maybe yes, maybe no. It's not that calling MS isn't the right choice, it's just important to understand why it is cheap (lack of broader support, you have already paid them and they are just charging you again for something that you didn't do wrong, etc.)
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Sure, but unlike other paid products, they don't charge me for updates, so this is trade off I'm personally OK with.
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@Dashrender said:
Sure, but unlike other paid products, they don't charge me for updates, so this is trade off I'm personally OK with.
They charge the rest of us. You don't pay for new versions of Windows products?
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LOL - Of course I pay for new versions, I don't pay for updates/patches/fixes, whatever you want to call the free things that you get every second tuesday of the month.
Now sure.. some vendors give away their updates/patches/fixes/whatever, but some also require maintenance agreements to get those updates (I'm looking at you Cisco, at you SonicWall).
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@Dashrender said:
LOL - Of course I pay for new versions, I don't pay for updates/patches/fixes, whatever you want to call the free things that you get every second tuesday of the month.
With RH, Suse, Ubuntu, Solaris.... support isn't just patching the things that THEY messed up, but you get the full version updates too. With none of those is there a "get the OS but not the updates" option. So everyone gives patches for free. Only MS charges for support AND for updates beyond patches.
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@Dashrender said:
Now sure.. some vendors give away their updates/patches/fixes/whatever, but some also require maintenance agreements to get those updates (I'm looking at you Cisco, at you SonicWall).
Right, but not OS vendors. Not ones that Microsoft is competing with.
