ZeroTier and DNS issues
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
The owner, soon to be division CEO of Lastpass was on Security Now yesterday.
One of the things he mentioned was that he hoped to get Himachi under his umbrella and bring it back to life. I'm not sure what that has to do with identity, but he felt that they were related and could bring new life to LogMeIn.
Hamachi has identical issues to ZeroTier here and LMI has no engineering talent left or else they would get LMI working instead of it slowly dying off. Hamachi has been dead for nearly a decade, it's time to bury those products.
I hear what you are saying - I think this is why LMI bought Lastpass. The LP guys still have fire in their belly. Hopefully they can turn things around...
The problem I have with them is their pricing structure. The product has always been solid for me.
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@dafyre said:
One thing you may want to check is that your LAN / Wireless connections are above the ZeroTier interface under Network Connections -> Advanced Settings
One Million +'s to you bro! I'm sure that will majorly help some issues!
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@Dashrender said:
I hear what you are saying - I think this is why LMI bought Lastpass. The LP guys still have fire in their belly. Hopefully they can turn things around...
Engineering can't fix ethics. LastPass has zero ability to fix LogMeIn.
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@Dashrender said:
The problem I have with them is their pricing structure. The product has always been solid for me.
The problems we have are these, in this order:
- Ethics
- Pricing
- Product
In theory they can fix the last two, but seems totally unlikely at this point. The first is a core "that is who they are as a business" issue that can't be fixed.
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Another thing (while not a clean solution), you could also test using netbios names as opposed to FQDNs. I am asking the ZeroTier guys what we can do about this.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I hear what you are saying - I think this is why LMI bought Lastpass. The LP guys still have fire in their belly. Hopefully they can turn things around...
Engineering can't fix ethics. LastPass has zero ability to fix LogMeIn.
and mentioning ethics, I'm assuming you're talking about how they promised LMI Free would be free forever.
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@dafyre said:
Another thing (while not a clean solution), you could also test using netbios names as opposed to FQDNs. I am asking the ZeroTier guys what we can do about this.
Why are they not in the community?
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@Dashrender said:
and mentioning ethics, I'm assuming you're talking about how they promised LMI Free would be free forever.
Technically it was free forever, til the end of the LMI free products life.
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@dafyre said:
Another thing (while not a clean solution), you could also test using netbios names as opposed to FQDNs. I am asking the ZeroTier guys what we can do about this.
lol - I started by pinging servername - but that was converted to the FQDN and then the ZT IP was found.
What was weird, once I removed IPv6 from the server I was trying to ping from, then suddenly I was getting the IP I was expecting.
The ability for the system to jump from protocol to protocol (IPv4, IPv6, NetBIOS) definitely complicates things.
Even more weird.. I have no IPv6 entries in my local DNS servers, yet it is enabled in most of my client workstations and a few of my servers.. WTF?
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@scottalanmiller This is a good question. I have invited them in at least twice. Third time is a charm, maybe?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
Another thing (while not a clean solution), you could also test using netbios names as opposed to FQDNs. I am asking the ZeroTier guys what we can do about this.
Why are they not in the community?
Which community?
They are more active than Pertino online... -
@Dashrender said:
and mentioning ethics, I'm assuming you're talking about how they promised LMI Free would be free forever.
Yes, they made a big commitment to their customers and reneged on it. Even after being confronted, they continued to do it anyway and have continued to do so for the years since. Every day they have the option to apologize and honour their commitments and every day they decide to not stand by their word and commitment. It's not a one time thing, it's an ongoing, every day thing that they continue to do. They always have the option to try to make up for that mistake and they decide daily to not do it.
A vendor with access to your data and that holds your infrastructure potentially hostage is certainly not one that you want to be unable to trust.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Which community?
They are more active than Pertino online...THE community, the one that we are in.
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@Jason said:
@Dashrender said:
and mentioning ethics, I'm assuming you're talking about how they promised LMI Free would be free forever.
Technically it was free forever, til the end of the LMI free products life.
LOL I was going to say the same thing. It was free, they didn't make it not free. They simply killed off the product, quote unquote.
But that point is also arguable because if you are a Central user, you get LMI Free to deploy on as machine machines as your Central license allows...
It's all a word game!
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not that this adds anything to this discussion...but i'm going to look into ZT as a possible Tino reinforcement/replacement.
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@Dashrender said:
Technically it was free forever, til the end of the LMI free products life.
That's not forever. And it still existed and was STILL called Free. It didn't even stay free to the end of life. It was not killed off.
And what you describe is purely semantics for the purpose of deceiving customers. That's even worse than just not honouring their commitments, that's seriously evil.
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@scottalanmiller said:
A vendor with access to your data and that holds your infrastructure potentially hostage is certainly not one that you want to be unable to trust.
How are they holding your infrastructure potentially hostage? They told everyone they were shutting down, and I'm assuming that they disconnected the endpoints where people choose not to pay. As far as I know LMI isn't preventing anyone from using another vendor to provide this same service.
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@Dashrender said:
But that point is also arguable because if you are a Central user, you get LMI Free to deploy on as machine machines as your Central license allows...
Exactly, we still have LMI Free right this second and it is in no way free at all.
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@dafyre Well here I am! (Author/founder of ZeroTier)
Reading the above, it seems the issue is active directory DNS. While I know tons about networking, I am not unfortunately an AD expert.
Pertino it seems highjacks DNS. This stuff is in the category of things we want to avoid-- ugly, nasty hacks that fix one thing but likely break everything else. This "enterprise" approach is how Windows networking got in such a bad state to begin with -- in digging into Windows one can see how this or that hack was put in place to make this or that work in an "enterprise" environment, and each hack results in a fractal explosion of edge cases that in turn demand more and more ugly hacks, and so on, until the entire thing becomes the ridiculous ball of garbage that it is today.
But in some cases we have simply been forced to do it. In all such cases we've tried to build such hacks as far from the ZeroTier core as possible. Here's one from WindowsEthernetTap:
https://github.com/zerotier/ZeroTierOne/blob/master/osdep/WindowsEthernetTap.cpp#L902
So let me explain my understanding of this Windows AD DNS issue:
Windows AD DNS likes to automatically register DNS entries for all adapters in the system. When ZT adapters are added, these can collide with, override, or pollute the DNS space with undesired entries. Is this the problem?
If not, can someone explain the issue in a bit more detail? What precisely is going on under the hood? Maybe we can figure out and document a fix that's more elegant.
