Woman Fired after uninstalling 24/7 tracking app
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@scottalanmiller said:
In places like NY there are additional things. Like sure, you can be on call, but if you get called and go to the office, the minimum non-negotiated work period is four hours. So there can be big compensation for on call events. Need to go power cycle a router? Two minutes of work is four hours of pay because there is no means of negotiating a lower time during an on call event.
You aren't allowed to be scheduled at a place of work for less than four hours, but I think most IT guys at small companies are basically considered to be always "on-call", which isn't fair. IT is a relatively new field compared to some professions, so I expect that over the next 10-20 years we'll see more and more laws specific to how IT works start to come into existence, which will apply to other professions that are changing how they function normally too.
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@handsofqwerty said:
You aren't allowed to be scheduled at a place of work for less than four hours....
In NY you can, you just have to negotiate it. Both parties have to agree that the compensation is enough to justify the commute. It is designed to protect employers from forcing an employee to quit by making it impossibly expensive to work after they have started working.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
In places like NY there are additional things. Like sure, you can be on call, but if you get called and go to the office, the minimum non-negotiated work period is four hours. So there can be big compensation for on call events. Need to go power cycle a router? Two minutes of work is four hours of pay because there is no means of negotiating a lower time during an on call event.
You aren't allowed to be scheduled at a place of work for less than four hours, but I think most IT guys at small companies are basically considered to be always "on-call", which isn't fair. IT is a relatively new field compared to some professions, so I expect that over the next 10-20 years we'll see more and more laws specific to how IT works start to come into existence, which will apply to other professions that are changing how they function normally too.
I doubt it. companies like this as it saves them money. and the government just doesn't care. Heck they can just make you an exempt employee and not have to worry about it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
So yes, corruption is rampant, especially in employment cases in the US. But legally, it seems pretty clear how it is supposed to work.
If it was clear, the courts would agree with you, when they obviously do not. The laws, as currently wrote are not clear. They have thus been interpreted by various judges across the country based on the facts for each case setting the precedent for the f[moderated]ed up mess the U.S. a now has. That does not mean corruption is rampant.
Now, I do agree that corruption is rampant though.
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@handsofqwerty said:
IT is a relatively new field compared to some professions, so I expect that over the next 10-20 years we'll see more and more laws specific to how IT works start to come into existence, which will apply to other professions that are changing how they function normally too.
Lots of things are new, that IT is treated this way is caused, I believe, by a cross-industry feeling (in the US at least) that IT workers means that all normal rights are suspended and that you are not protected by employment law (or often a belief that the laws do not exist.)
Had I not managed hourly, blue collar employees and been through extensive training on the liabilities of employers on this I might feel this way too. I've been trained heavily on specifically these things because managers of hourly workers is very risky as you can so easily violate their rights.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
So yes, corruption is rampant, especially in employment cases in the US. But legally, it seems pretty clear how it is supposed to work.
If it was clear, the courts would agree with you, when they obviously do not. The laws, as currently wrote are not clear. They have thus been interpreted by various judges across the country based on the facts for each case setting the precedent for the f[moderated]ed up mess the U.S. a now has. That does not mean corruption is rampant.
Now, I do agree that corruption is rampant though.
I think they are clear, but it's clear that clarity is not a requirement. Since judges are not bound to follow the law, clarity isn't a big deal and that judges rule against the law doesn't imply that it wasn't clear. Maybe it isn't clear, but it's hard to imagine it being much clearer.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
In places like NY there are additional things. Like sure, you can be on call, but if you get called and go to the office, the minimum non-negotiated work period is four hours. So there can be big compensation for on call events. Need to go power cycle a router? Two minutes of work is four hours of pay because there is no means of negotiating a lower time during an on call event.
You aren't allowed to be scheduled at a place of work for less than four hours, but I think most IT guys at small companies are basically considered to be always "on-call", which isn't fair. IT is a relatively new field compared to some professions, so I expect that over the next 10-20 years we'll see more and more laws specific to how IT works start to come into existence, which will apply to other professions that are changing how they function normally too.
I doubt it. companies like this as it saves them money. and the government just doesn't care. Heck they can just make you an exempt employee and not have to worry about it.
But then they are covered by other laws. Exempt does fix a lot of things, but you can't just "make people exempt" as there are other guidelines to follow.
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Does anyone have a reference to federal judges ruling that being stuck working continuously for on call is being ruled as "not working?" I'd be interested in finding cases where this is really happening and not just speculation. There is a chance that the cases in question were not people actually being trapped and actually just needing to take a call from time to time.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
You aren't allowed to be scheduled at a place of work for less than four hours....
In NY you can, you just have to negotiate it. Both parties have to agree that the compensation is enough to justify the commute. It is designed to protect employers from forcing an employee to quit by making it impossibly expensive to work after they have started working.
Ok, yes, that's true. My retail job can't schedule me normally for less than four hours, but if I ask if I can work for two hours some night, they are allowed to let me.
