If you were deploying all new APs today, N or AC?
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@thanksajdotcom said:
Not at all. It's still an N signal, just a higher powered one. It's like what happens if you put higher octane gas in your car. Your car may normally take 87, but if you put 93 in, you'll have more kick and slightly better MPG from the same car.
If your goal is higher powered N, buy a better N AP, not an AC AP.
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@g.jacobse said:
There isn't the EM noise issues, though there won't be any EM noise with properly selected cooper either.
Because fiber comes with loads of caveats, the biggest ones being cost. Unless you are dropping packets with copper, fiber has literally no performance or reliability advantage. If you are dropping packets, you need to address what is wrong with your copper. EM should not impact you under normal conditions.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Not at all. It's still an N signal, just a higher powered one. It's like what happens if you put higher octane gas in your car. Your car may normally take 87, but if you put 93 in, you'll have more kick and slightly better MPG from the same car.
If your goal is higher powered N, buy a better N AP, not an AC AP.
Yes, but if you can gain the range benefit and also have the AC ready to go when your computers start coming with AC cards, why not?
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Not at all. It's still an N signal, just a higher powered one. It's like what happens if you put higher octane gas in your car. Your car may normally take 87, but if you put 93 in, you'll have more kick and slightly better MPG from the same car.
If your goal is higher powered N, buy a better N AP, not an AC AP.
Yes, but if you can gain the range benefit and also have the AC ready to go when your computers start coming with AC cards, why not?
Because that's not a feature of AC. It's a feature of a long range AP. 2.4ghz on a N AP and an AC AP is exactly the same.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Not at all. It's still an N signal, just a higher powered one. It's like what happens if you put higher octane gas in your car. Your car may normally take 87, but if you put 93 in, you'll have more kick and slightly better MPG from the same car.
If your goal is higher powered N, buy a better N AP, not an AC AP.
Yes, but if you can gain the range benefit and also have the AC ready to go when your computers start coming with AC cards, why not?
We just discussed how range does not improve.
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Remember, investing today in technology for tomorrow means you pay a premium for that technology. What if, by the time you are ready for AC, the next thing is out. Will you invest again in something that you cannot use? You are just continuously losing money doing that. You need a tangible benefit to your investments, especially when they are large (in percentage, normally.) AC is not cheap compared to N, it's not like a couple extra dollars. It's real money that you lose, money that could have been banked and used to buy even better stuff when the right time came and a need existed.
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On topic: If I am going to deploy APs today, I would only recommend AC based units.
None of my clients lease hardware They purchase it. This hardware will be in place for 6+ years unless some other business need forces it to be changed before that. This means that all hardware purchased needs to be thought about with implications to future usage.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, investing today in technology for tomorrow means you pay a premium for that technology. What if, by the time you are ready for AC, the next thing is out. Will you invest again in something that you cannot use? You are just continuously losing money doing that. You need a tangible benefit to your investments, especially when they are large (in percentage, normally.) AC is not cheap compared to N, it's not like a couple extra dollars. It's real money that you lose, money that could have been banked and used to buy even better stuff when the right time came and a need existed.
I think arguing that because AC isn't an official standard yet so not using it doesn't make sense is a foolish way to go about it considering it was what, a decade before N became an official standard?
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, investing today in technology for tomorrow means you pay a premium for that technology. What if, by the time you are ready for AC, the next thing is out. Will you invest again in something that you cannot use? You are just continuously losing money doing that. You need a tangible benefit to your investments, especially when they are large (in percentage, normally.) AC is not cheap compared to N, it's not like a couple extra dollars. It's real money that you lose, money that could have been banked and used to buy even better stuff when the right time came and a need existed.
I think arguing that because AC isn't an official standard yet so not using it doesn't make sense is a foolish way to go about it considering it was what, a decade before N became an official standard?
It was only about 6-7 years. But, I don't think that's the issue it's deploying something that's overkill for your needs. If you really need those improved speeds go for it. If not your wasting money and may never need it. Along with the fact that by the time you do need it something may have replaced 802.11AC and you spent more on your last deployment just to have to upgrade it again to meet the needs.
Most do not need the benefits of AC. In a medium size deployment AC will easily cost tens of thousands more. Also in deployments you have to consider you have less room for interference (and more chances of it) with a 256-QAM Constellation of AC.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, investing today in technology for tomorrow means you pay a premium for that technology. What if, by the time you are ready for AC, the next thing is out.
Any new deployment that is going to need APs will also mean there is very likely newer hardware onsite.
FWIW, AC is active and in use on the few AC capable APs I have installed so far.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, investing today in technology for tomorrow means you pay a premium for that technology.
I will agree with you on this point, for sure.
You are just continuously losing money doing that. You need a tangible benefit to your investments, especially when they are large (in percentage, normally.) AC is not cheap compared to N, it's not like a couple extra dollars. It's real money that you lose, money that could have been banked and used to buy even better stuff when the right time came and a need existed.
That depends on the brand names you are talking about... and at what scale. If you are going to buy 100 Wireless N for a total of $230k, an additional $50,000 is quite a chunk to go from N to AC. However, I think we are starting to get close to the end of life of Wireless N (we're not quite there yet) -- in the sense that most new laptops and devices sold this year come with systems that work with AC, and N (and even G, in dual rado setups).
Since the newer AC Units are backwards compatible with N on the 2.4 gHz band, it makes sense to me, to upgrade to get the extra processing power of the AC access points since they are both firmly planted in that future looking, yet backwards compatible limbo, if you will.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
I'd get gigabit switches. No reason not too. But in most applications if your phone limits your desktop connection to 100mbps the user will see no difference. It depends on what kind of data/how big the data is that your company is using.
The reason is cost.
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I'd get gigabit switches. No reason not too. But in most applications if your phone limits your desktop connection to 100mbps the user will see no difference. It depends on what kind of data/how big the data is that your company is using.
The reason is cost.
True. But are you planning to upgrade to PoE switches for your APs anyway? There isn't that much difference in cost these days. You could get some refurbished managed PoE gigabit switches if you needed too. Have 100mbs uplinks will also be a big limit on APs, Servers and routers and switch uplinks if not done with stacking cables.
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I did a quick search (and I do mean quick, before lunch) at HP switches. It looks like their 1800 series only offers POE for half of a 48 port switch, would is worthless to me. I'd have to get two 24 port switches instead (and actually I'll need three in two buildings since I'm over 48 ports in use).
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What POE+ high density switches are people using these days?
Needs to support VLANs.
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@Dashrender said:
What POE+ high density switches are people using these days?
Needs to support VLANs.
Have you looked at the HP 2920-48G
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I'd get gigabit switches. No reason not too. But in most applications if your phone limits your desktop connection to 100mbps the user will see no difference. It depends on what kind of data/how big the data is that your company is using.
The reason is cost.
True. But are you planning to upgrade to PoE switches for your APs anyway? There isn't that much difference in cost these days. You could get some refurbished managed PoE gigabit switches if you needed too. Have 100mbs uplinks will also be a big limit on APs, Servers and routers and switch uplinks if not done with stacking cables.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but uplinks on these types of switches have been gig or better for the past decade, so I'm really not considering a 100 Mb uplink.
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@Dashrender said:
What POE+ high density switches are people using these days?
Needs to support VLANs.
any concerns with wattage per port or is it just a handful of phones mixed with other non-PoE stuff?
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@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@Dashrender said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I'd get gigabit switches. No reason not too. But in most applications if your phone limits your desktop connection to 100mbps the user will see no difference. It depends on what kind of data/how big the data is that your company is using.
The reason is cost.
True. But are you planning to upgrade to PoE switches for your APs anyway? There isn't that much difference in cost these days. You could get some refurbished managed PoE gigabit switches if you needed too. Have 100mbs uplinks will also be a big limit on APs, Servers and routers and switch uplinks if not done with stacking cables.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but uplinks on these types of switches have been gig or better for the past decade, so I'm really not considering a 100 Mb uplink.
Yes, most have a few for gig uplink between switches but it likely wouldn't cover all your Servers nor have PoE for your APs.
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Remember, investing today in technology for tomorrow means you pay a premium for that technology.
I will agree with you on this point, for sure.
You are just continuously losing money doing that. You need a tangible benefit to your investments, especially when they are large (in percentage, normally.) AC is not cheap compared to N, it's not like a couple extra dollars. It's real money that you lose, money that could have been banked and used to buy even better stuff when the right time came and a need existed.
That depends on the brand names you are talking about... and at what scale. If you are going to buy 100 Wireless N for a total of $230k, an additional $50,000 is quite a chunk to go from N to AC. However, I think we are starting to get close to the end of life of Wireless N (we're not quite there yet) -- in the sense that most new laptops and devices sold this year come with systems that work with AC, and N (and even G, in dual rado setups).
Since the newer AC Units are backwards compatible with N on the 2.4 gHz band, it makes sense to me, to upgrade to get the extra processing power of the AC access points since they are both firmly planted in that future looking, yet backwards compatible limbo, if you will.
Check the cost, though. How much money do you lose going to AC now? How much money is "being ready" going to cost? Keep in mind that likely, in about two years, you can buy AC for probably half the price that they are today. And you can upgrade one at a time as appropriate. The flexibility, time value of money, unknown future principle and other things make investing in technology you can't use or justify yet generally pretty bad. Especially stuff like this that has a pretty predictable cost dropping curve.
