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    Non-IT News Thread

    Water Closet
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    • DashrenderD
      Dashrender @scottalanmiller
      last edited by

      @scottalanmiller said:

      Not sure anyone ranks that. Not sure what we would read into any specific numbers from that either. If we could remove ALL gang members killed in some meaningful way, I'd like to see those numbers. But people killed by groups or killed by individuals I'm not sure we'd care about.

      That's the point I was trying to get at gang bangers dead vs non gang bangers.

      This leads into your proposal that maybe the US is just more violent, and I'd tend to agree that our 'war on drugs' is a huge part of that. If we took the incentive for cash away from the gangs I can't imagine that the numbers wouldn't fall drastically!

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • DashrenderD
        Dashrender @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said:

        Overall, I suspect that "idiot on a killing spree" is so small as to not show up significantly in any of the stats.

        Of course you're probably right - but you're missing the point. The point was to compare gang related violence vs non gang related violence.

        I'm guessing that Europe doesn't have the gang violence like we have here, again probably because the drug situation is different there, at least a little.

        scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller
          last edited by

          That's definitely a realistic thing, the US simply might be a violent culture. We do many things to promote violence, guns just being one of them. We put people in jail for minor, even trivial things, we wage a war on drugs for its own sake, we encourage the creation of gangs, etc.

          dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • scottalanmillerS
            scottalanmiller @Dashrender
            last edited by

            @Dashrender said:

            I'm guessing that Europe doesn't have the gang violence like we have here, again probably because the drug situation is different there, at least a little.

            It has gangs and organized crime, not unlike the US. Just much less violent 🙂

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            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller @Dashrender
              last edited by

              @Dashrender said:

              Of course you're probably right - but you're missing the point. The point was to compare gang related violence vs non gang related violence.

              Because that primarily shows things like drug influence?

              DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • DashrenderD
                Dashrender @scottalanmiller
                last edited by

                @scottalanmiller said:

                @Dashrender said:

                Of course you're probably right - but you're missing the point. The point was to compare gang related violence vs non gang related violence.

                Because that primarily shows things like drug influence?

                I was going for gang influence, but yeah, it's probably more related to drugs, since you say that Europe and Japan have gangs as bad as the US but not as violent (which really is something I can't comprehend - what are people just so weak that they just cave to the gangs over there before violence takes place? if so, is that a good or bad thing?)

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                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller
                  last edited by

                  Gangs don't produce the fear or problems there. They are far, far less effective.

                  Each region has some massive organized crime (Japan is famous for this, no idea how influential they are) but it isn't the same "don't go down that street" that is all over the US.

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                  • scottalanmillerS
                    scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    I"m not having luck finding stats on gang violence outside of the US. Not sure everyone classifies gangs the same.

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                    • MattSpellerM
                      MattSpeller
                      last edited by

                      TL;DR - take away? Have we learned anything? Anyone that brave? 😛 Many letters were spilled on this white canvas and I don't think we got anything done.

                      dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller
                        last edited by

                        We generated a lot of traffic and that alone is valuable 🙂

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • mlnewsM
                          mlnews
                          last edited by

                          Surprise apology from North Korea in the ongoing crisis on the peninsula.

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                          • mlnewsM
                            mlnews
                            last edited by

                            Newlywed sixteen year old Honduran mother to be possibly buried alive, but pronounced dead once reaching hospital after being exhumed when family heard screaming from burial spot.

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                            • mlnewsM
                              mlnews
                              last edited by

                              Jared Fogle's charity found to be a scam.

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                              • dafyreD
                                dafyre @scottalanmiller
                                last edited by

                                @scottalanmiller said:

                                Maybe that is what it is meant to do maybe not, that isn't stated. I appreciate the idea that you want the ability to overthrow the government but I don't believe it is safe or realistic.

                                I'm sure England thought the same thing until 13 colonies decided to fight back.

                                Is it safe? No, definitely not. Realistic? Definitely!

                                Is it probable that it will happen again? Eeeeehhhhh. I doubt it will happen in our lifetime or maybe even our children's... But you can bet if / when it does, it will bad for everybody involved.

                                scottalanmillerS 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • dafyreD
                                  dafyre @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said:

                                  That's definitely a realistic thing, the US simply might be a violent culture.

                                  I think you could largely be right about this. Going back in history, we had to fight for our independence, then we had slaves revolting against unfair owners, and then we had to fight amongst ourselves (hey, I did it! ... see the Random Words thread, lol)... Nowadays, it looks like people are just being violent for the sake of being violent, when reality is, it is pretty much ingrained in all of us.

                                  Thinking on a global scale, I think it could also have something to do with how small the planet has gotten -- especially in the last say 30 years or so.

                                  scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • dafyreD
                                    dafyre @MattSpeller
                                    last edited by

                                    @MattSpeller said:

                                    TL;DR - take away? Have we learned anything? Anyone that brave? 😛 Many letters were spilled on this white canvas and I don't think we got anything done.

                                    But we covered so many topics! And as @scottalanmiller we generated lots of traffic!

                                    The Short, Short version: People Like Guns! People Don't Like Guns! We can still be friends!

                                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmillerS
                                      scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                      last edited by

                                      @dafyre said:

                                      @scottalanmiller said:

                                      Maybe that is what it is meant to do maybe not, that isn't stated. I appreciate the idea that you want the ability to overthrow the government but I don't believe it is safe or realistic.

                                      I'm sure England thought the same thing until 13 colonies decided to fight back.

                                      Actually no, the military leaders prior to the war advised the king that a war in the colonies was unwinnable due to terrain and population. England went to war knowing it had no ability to win. Both the army and the navy (commanded by brothers) had told the king they were incapable of winning a war should be pursue one.

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                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                        last edited by

                                        @dafyre said:

                                        Is it safe? No, definitely not. Realistic? Definitely!

                                        The revolution is not the war to compare to. That was an unwinnable war fought by a foreign power fought via attrition.

                                        A war at home would be a civil war and would be neighbor against neighbor. Every weapon kept at one person's home would be turned on the weapons at the house next door. It's not government versus government but person against person with, presumably, the military on one side (almost certainly the same side with the most guns at home since the politics of the military and the "guns at home" groups have always aligned.)

                                        If anything, an armed populace suggests an irregular force that would back the military rather than oppose it. But in either case, we are talking about killing each other, not one country versus another. The US civil way would be a better example, but a bad one, but one that had a far better chance of succeeding (and had almost none as it was.)

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                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                          last edited by

                                          @dafyre said:

                                          Is it probable that it will happen again? Eeeeehhhhh. I doubt it will happen in our lifetime or maybe even our children's... But you can bet if / when it does, it will bad for everybody involved.

                                          I'm confident that it will never happen. Very confident. There is no precedence in history for a sovereignty at the imperial level (which the US very much is) having an uprising of that type. It has literally never happened AFAIK and simply could not happen.

                                          The only situation where it would make sense is a small group of heavily armed irregulars supporting the regulars in a military coup to become a dictatorship.

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                                          • scottalanmillerS
                                            scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by

                                            Not that I'm saying military dictators are bad. Cuba has done pretty well. They have better healthcare than the US, lower homicide rate and do so with almost no resources and two generations of embargo. Dictators are not always bad things. But I feel like the people who often fear the government taking over aren't the ones who normally want dictators to be the result.

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