Who do you call for IT assistance
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
- That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
Unfortunately we live in the real world.
No SMB will have enough people (or money) to cover everything in the IT world, from basic desktop support, server hardware/software, security, firewalls, pentesting, cloud, azure, etc etc etc.So we need to reach out for help when needed. Yes I would say I have a broed knowledge in a wide range (part thanks to this forum) but some stuff I know we would need some external help with.
I believe Scott’s argument to that would be:
Of course not, not in house. They would hire it out through an MSP. This allows for the sharing of the MSP’s resources across multiple companies while getting all the advantages.Scott’s said this before.
Exactly, there is always a way.
And I have yet to work with an MSP that they themselves haven't had to occasionally reach outside of their own borders to get a solution to a problem.
Yes you have. Unless you don't mean IT borders. No real MSP is going to vendors, that's something VARs do regularly, because they rarely have skills in house, there is no need as they aren't IT.
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
OK I see where you're going here - you're assuming anyone selling a product is incapable providing support for that product - that seems insane!
Sure the entity making the product can't and shouldn't be expected to know the in's and out's of the purchaser's network, but I think it reasonable for the vendor to be able to assist on the product specifically, and perhaps be part of the team that solves the issue.Right, asking for product fixes is not having them do IT. Having them do anything meaningful can't be done. Even if they have the capabilities, they are in the enemy camp and cannot be trusted. ANd the real world bears this out every time. The advise and guidance from vendors universally puts companies at massive risk.
you don't consider product fixes meaningful? That's the only reason you call them! perhaps not a "fix" exactly - but figuring out why you can't get their product to dance as you expect.... that's part of their job too, at least in my mind...
Yeah it comes down to most of us here include their help in this way - providing fixes to their software/their solutions - IS part of the IT solution. -
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
- That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
Unfortunately we live in the real world.
No SMB will have enough people (or money) to cover everything in the IT world, from basic desktop support, server hardware/software, security, firewalls, pentesting, cloud, azure, etc etc etc.So we need to reach out for help when needed. Yes I would say I have a broed knowledge in a wide range (part thanks to this forum) but some stuff I know we would need some external help with.
I believe Scott’s argument to that would be:
Of course not, not in house. They would hire it out through an MSP. This allows for the sharing of the MSP’s resources across multiple companies while getting all the advantages.Scott’s said this before.
Exactly, there is always a way.
And I have yet to work with an MSP that they themselves haven't had to occasionally reach outside of their own borders to get a solution to a problem.
Until working in the SPiceworks community, I'd never even encountered a business that considered something like this. This isn't as universal a failing as you think that it is.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
OK I see where you're going here - you're assuming anyone selling a product is incapable providing support for that product - that seems insane!
Sure the entity making the product can't and shouldn't be expected to know the in's and out's of the purchaser's network, but I think it reasonable for the vendor to be able to assist on the product specifically, and perhaps be part of the team that solves the issue.Right, asking for product fixes is not having them do IT. Having them do anything meaningful can't be done. Even if they have the capabilities, they are in the enemy camp and cannot be trusted. ANd the real world bears this out every time. The advise and guidance from vendors universally puts companies at massive risk.
you don't consider product fixes meaningful? That's the only reason you call them! perhaps not a "fix" exactly - but figuring out why you can't get their product to dance as you expect.... that's part of their job too, at least in my mind...
Yeah it comes down to most of us here include their help in this way - providing fixes to their software/their solutions - IS part of the IT solution.What does meaningful have to do with it? And no, 99% of calls to vendors are not for product fixes, but for someone to do the job of IT.
Software fixes is a wholly unrelated discussion about product engineering of the vendor's product, that's in no way related to this discussion about IT.
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
- That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
Unfortunately we live in the real world.
No SMB will have enough people (or money) to cover everything in the IT world, from basic desktop support, server hardware/software, security, firewalls, pentesting, cloud, azure, etc etc etc.So we need to reach out for help when needed. Yes I would say I have a broed knowledge in a wide range (part thanks to this forum) but some stuff I know we would need some external help with.
I believe Scott’s argument to that would be:
Of course not, not in house. They would hire it out through an MSP. This allows for the sharing of the MSP’s resources across multiple companies while getting all the advantages.Scott’s said this before.
Exactly, there is always a way.
And I have yet to work with an MSP that they themselves haven't had to occasionally reach outside of their own borders to get a solution to a problem.
Yes you have. Unless you don't mean IT borders. No real MSP is going to vendors, that's something VARs do regularly, because they rarely have skills in house, there is no need as they aren't IT.
Well then, I've never worked with a real MSP then (and that's not meant to be a slight against you or NTG or JB as I haven't engaged either of you as a MSP).
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
Yeah it comes down to most of us here include their help in this way - providing fixes to their software/their solutions - IS part of the IT solution.
No, that's part of software or hardware engineering. Again, Ford fixing a blown gasket is not the same as the driver needing directions. IT operates the equipment, the vendor builds it. IT does not write the software that we run or build the servers. You are mixing completely different endeavors and concepts here. This is similar to saying that IT needs to eat, food is mission critical, therefore McDonald's is our IT advisors.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
- That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
Unfortunately we live in the real world.
No SMB will have enough people (or money) to cover everything in the IT world, from basic desktop support, server hardware/software, security, firewalls, pentesting, cloud, azure, etc etc etc.So we need to reach out for help when needed. Yes I would say I have a broed knowledge in a wide range (part thanks to this forum) but some stuff I know we would need some external help with.
I believe Scott’s argument to that would be:
Of course not, not in house. They would hire it out through an MSP. This allows for the sharing of the MSP’s resources across multiple companies while getting all the advantages.Scott’s said this before.
Exactly, there is always a way.
And I have yet to work with an MSP that they themselves haven't had to occasionally reach outside of their own borders to get a solution to a problem.
Yes you have. Unless you don't mean IT borders. No real MSP is going to vendors, that's something VARs do regularly, because they rarely have skills in house, there is no need as they aren't IT.
Well then, I've never worked with a real MSP then (and that's not meant to be a slight against you or NTG or JB as I haven't engaged either of you as a MSP).
Few have, I keep telling you 99% of the field is VARs faking it because businesses rarely audit their IT and just want to have their jobs done for them. So being a VAR and lying about IT is a sure fire way to make money because almost every customer is happy as long as they can plausibly deny knowing that what they did was wrong.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
- That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
Unfortunately we live in the real world.
No SMB will have enough people (or money) to cover everything in the IT world, from basic desktop support, server hardware/software, security, firewalls, pentesting, cloud, azure, etc etc etc.So we need to reach out for help when needed. Yes I would say I have a broed knowledge in a wide range (part thanks to this forum) but some stuff I know we would need some external help with.
I believe Scott’s argument to that would be:
Of course not, not in house. They would hire it out through an MSP. This allows for the sharing of the MSP’s resources across multiple companies while getting all the advantages.Scott’s said this before.
Exactly, there is always a way.
And I have yet to work with an MSP that they themselves haven't had to occasionally reach outside of their own borders to get a solution to a problem.
Yes you have. Unless you don't mean IT borders. No real MSP is going to vendors, that's something VARs do regularly, because they rarely have skills in house, there is no need as they aren't IT.
Well then, I've never worked with a real MSP then (and that's not meant to be a slight against you or NTG or JB as I haven't engaged either of you as a MSP).
THe thing is, chances are, you've never worked with an MSP at all.
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Just one thing
If your saying you can't trust a vender to provide valid support for their products, why buy it? -
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
Just one thing
If your saying you can't trust a vender to provide valid support for their products, why buy it?No one said that they won't support their products. They can't do IT. Supporting their products is not IT, that's two very different things.
Compare to cars. If you operate a taxi or limo fleet, or a rental car fleet, you call on Honda to repair a faulty transmission. You never call on Honda to advice you on how to hire, drive, fuel, finance, or manage the cars, drivers, or customers.
The vendor is like Honday, and fixing the car is an engineering task, not a business management one. IT is like business management.
If you start thinking that building (or fixing) servers or software is part of IT, then it gets really confusing. Those companies and their employees have little or no idea that people think that they do something in IT... because to them they are engineers and manufacturers, not IT in any sense. IT is part of the internal management / business operations of a company, not a product that can be sold or repairs.
Again, calling a vendor for what the vendor does is absolutely okay (but shouldn't be common or you have a product problem.) But asking a vendor to do IT work is a huge problem that it is our task to protect against as IT.
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
Just one thing
If your saying you can't trust a vender to provide valid support for their products, why buy it?No one said that they won't support their products. They can't do IT. Supporting their products is not IT, that's two very different things.
Compare to cars. If you operate a taxi or limo fleet, or a rental car fleet, you call on Honda to repair a faulty transmission. You never call on Honda to advice you on how to hire, drive, fuel, finance, or manage the cars, drivers, or customers.
The vendor is like Honday, and fixing the car is an engineering task, not a business management one. IT is like business management.
If you start thinking that building (or fixing) servers or software is part of IT, then it gets really confusing. Those companies and their employees have little or no idea that people think that they do something in IT... because to them they are engineers and manufacturers, not IT in any sense. IT is part of the internal management / business operations of a company, not a product that can be sold or repairs.
Again, calling a vendor for what the vendor does is absolutely okay (but shouldn't be common or you have a product problem.) But asking a vendor to do IT work is a huge problem that it is our task to protect against as IT.
Yeah i see now miss understood
Realize now your saying don't ask Dell how are CRM system works lol -
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
Just one thing
If your saying you can't trust a vender to provide valid support for their products, why buy it?No one said that they won't support their products. They can't do IT. Supporting their products is not IT, that's two very different things.
Compare to cars. If you operate a taxi or limo fleet, or a rental car fleet, you call on Honda to repair a faulty transmission. You never call on Honda to advice you on how to hire, drive, fuel, finance, or manage the cars, drivers, or customers.
The vendor is like Honday, and fixing the car is an engineering task, not a business management one. IT is like business management.
If you start thinking that building (or fixing) servers or software is part of IT, then it gets really confusing. Those companies and their employees have little or no idea that people think that they do something in IT... because to them they are engineers and manufacturers, not IT in any sense. IT is part of the internal management / business operations of a company, not a product that can be sold or repairs.
Again, calling a vendor for what the vendor does is absolutely okay (but shouldn't be common or you have a product problem.) But asking a vendor to do IT work is a huge problem that it is our task to protect against as IT.
Yeah i see now miss understood
Realize now your saying don't ask Dell how are CRM system works lolExactly. Or worse, don't ask them if you need to buy more stuff and who to buy it from. Of course it will be "yes" and "Dell". No need to ask to get those answers!
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@scottalanmiller As someone who has had to deal with vendor supplied hardware and software for a medical practice, I have come to firmly believe vendors are the enemy, a $very $very $expensive enemy.
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@rjt said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller As someone who has had to deal with vendor supplied hardware and software for a medical practice, I have come to firmly believe vendors are the enemy, a $very $very $expensive enemy.
Yup. In some cases, a true enemy. In others, just on the other side of the chess board. It's not always malicious, normally it is not. But their interest are very, very different than ours and their financial responsibilities oppose ours. So they are stuck either being ethical to their employers, or ethical to the people they are paid to convince to do things not in their interest.
If they are true to their employer, they can be ethical across the board. If they try to be good for the customer, they have to be unethical to their employer. A nonsensical situation.
