Veeam Replication to Azure
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Hi folks,
I am looking to potentially use the replication tool within Veeam B&R to send replicas of key VMs to Azure/AWS for DR purposes. We would not send everything over, only key servers. 1 x Domain Controller, 3 x Web Server and 1 x Database Server. Possibly more, but that is the current list.
How can I calculate prices for running this? The replicas would be offline, so I would expect to only pay storage costs and data inbound costs but no other costs until in a DR situation. I could look at the pricing calculator and add up for generic VMs, but... these are replicas of specific VMs and do not meet templates...
Any pointers would be appreciated.
Cheers.
Why aren't you looking at Glacier, Backblaze B2, or Wasabi? If it's only a few VMs for cold storage, then those 3 will be much cheaper, and B2 and Wasabi are vastly simpler to figure out pricing on.
Do those providers provide a DR situation? If they are only storage, then this is likely not the solution he's looking for.
They are pieces of DR solutions, the pieces that connect to Veeam. Looking only for a bundle is likely going to make this hard and expensive.
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
I think you just want a normal backup, nothing more. I have a feeling you are mixing the idea of having a cloud DR strategy with the search for storage for your backups. They are separate items and what makes sense for the one, doesn't make sense for the other. The products are fundamentally wrong.
Are you sure? He said DR several times, not backup. Granted if all he wants is offsite backups, then S3 or Glacier BB etc are all likely candidates, but if DR is the need, the others he listed seem like some of the prime candidates.
Backup is the first part of DR. You build DR off of your backup. Trying to get DR without a solid backup strategy is possible, but is going to make the whole thing way more expensive because he's trying to use the wrong tool for the wrong job. We work in IT, sometimes you have to build the final solution, not buy it as a whole.
Think of it like servers and desktops. While it's possible to buy an office of computers that comes with servers and desktops all as a single package, it sounds absurd to try to do that, right? Because it's very inflexible, really obviously has no reason to all be merged into one thing, and would obviously cost way more than it should. Same here. DR is something you do, not something you buy.
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
ants is offsite backups, then S3 or Glacier BB etc are all likely candidates, but if DR is the need, the others he listed seem like some of the prime candid
Backups are already sorted using Veeam with scale out to Azure. To be clear, I am not talking about backups. I am talking about DR. Backups are as they need to be.
The DR part is using Veeam Replica to replicate a from backup, or from the origin host a copy 'replica' of any VM I wish to. I am able to do a replica using Veeam to 1) another host within my own on site/systems globally, or 2) to a cloud provider.
What I am specifically trying to do is find costs to use this Veeam technology to send replicas to a cloud provider. DRaaS. If my site goes down, I can use this DRaaS service to spin up my VMs pretty much instantly. Just like I could do with a replica HyperV VM on a different host...
The question I am trying to answer is getting costs for this. I cant just quote up several VMs in Azure, or AWS or whatever. They are not my replicas. They are standardized templates. Useless to me for this purpose.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Veeam Cloud Connect
Who do they support? I think that Veeam CC is a service, not something you use to connect to your own storage options like you are looking for.
I think you just want a normal backup, nothing more. I have a feeling you are mixing the idea of having a cloud DR strategy with the search for storage for your backups. They are separate items and what makes sense for the one, doesn't make sense for the other. The products are fundamentally wrong.
Example... it's S3 or Glacier from Amazon, not EC2, that you'd be looking for.
Im not looking to connect and use them for storage. That would be useless to me. This is for DR.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Veeam Cloud Connect
Who do they support? I think that Veeam CC is a service, not something you use to connect to your own storage options like you are looking for.
I think you just want a normal backup, nothing more. I have a feeling you are mixing the idea of having a cloud DR strategy with the search for storage for your backups. They are separate items and what makes sense for the one, doesn't make sense for the other. The products are fundamentally wrong.
Example... it's S3 or Glacier from Amazon, not EC2, that you'd be looking for.
Im not looking to connect and use them for storage. That would be useless to me. This is for DR.
DR requires storage. How do you want DR to work if it can't get the data from the backups?
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@Dashrender said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Hi folks,
I am looking to potentially use the replication tool within Veeam B&R to send replicas of key VMs to Azure/AWS for DR purposes. We would not send everything over, only key servers. 1 x Domain Controller, 3 x Web Server and 1 x Database Server. Possibly more, but that is the current list.
How can I calculate prices for running this? The replicas would be offline, so I would expect to only pay storage costs and data inbound costs but no other costs until in a DR situation. I could look at the pricing calculator and add up for generic VMs, but... these are replicas of specific VMs and do not meet templates...
Any pointers would be appreciated.
Cheers.
Why aren't you looking at Glacier, Backblaze B2, or Wasabi? If it's only a few VMs for cold storage, then those 3 will be much cheaper, and B2 and Wasabi are vastly simpler to figure out pricing on.
Do those providers provide a DR situation? If they are only storage, then this is likely not the solution he's looking for.
Correct. I must not have been clear in the original post. Veeam has replication which has advantages over Hyper-V replica native. This can replicate to on site servers, or to DRaaS providers. (I don't think Azure or AWS actually support Veeam Cloud Connect from earlier research).
It looks like ill have to contact providers and get some cold callers hitting me.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Backups are already sorted using Veeam with scale out to Azure. To be clear, I am not talking about backups. I am talking about DR. Backups are as they need to be.
DR and Backups are intertwined. You can't separate them. Backups are 95% of DR planning. Sure, the remaining 5% is pretty important.
Most places that don't do live/live failover, spin up directly from backups. There's no extra tooling or special products or "DR" to do. DR is a plan built from your backups, not a product or "thing".
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
What I am specifically trying to do is find costs to use this Veeam technology to send replicas to a cloud provider. DRaaS. If my site goes down, I can use this DRaaS service to spin up my VMs pretty much instantly. Just like I could do with a replica HyperV VM on a different host...
The problem here is, DRaaS includes backups. So this takes us back to "where do you send your backups", once again.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Veeam Cloud Connect
Who do they support? I think that Veeam CC is a service, not something you use to connect to your own storage options like you are looking for.
I think you just want a normal backup, nothing more. I have a feeling you are mixing the idea of having a cloud DR strategy with the search for storage for your backups. They are separate items and what makes sense for the one, doesn't make sense for the other. The products are fundamentally wrong.
Example... it's S3 or Glacier from Amazon, not EC2, that you'd be looking for.
Im not looking to connect and use them for storage. That would be useless to me. This is for DR.
DR requires storage. How do you want DR to work if it can't get the data from the backups?
The DRaaS of course comes with storage. But thats not the reason for using it. The purpose is I can turn on replicas on the DRaaS solution and bring my systems back up on the providers infrastructure. Backups are backups. This is not getting data from backups. The DR has its own copy of replicated VMs.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
The question I am trying to answer is getting costs for this. I cant just quote up several VMs in Azure, or AWS or whatever. They are not my replicas. They are standardized templates. Useless to me for this purpose.
Not sure what you mean, the prices are the same regardless of the OS source. The templates are not part of the price.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Dashrender said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@travisdh1 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Hi folks,
I am looking to potentially use the replication tool within Veeam B&R to send replicas of key VMs to Azure/AWS for DR purposes. We would not send everything over, only key servers. 1 x Domain Controller, 3 x Web Server and 1 x Database Server. Possibly more, but that is the current list.
How can I calculate prices for running this? The replicas would be offline, so I would expect to only pay storage costs and data inbound costs but no other costs until in a DR situation. I could look at the pricing calculator and add up for generic VMs, but... these are replicas of specific VMs and do not meet templates...
Any pointers would be appreciated.
Cheers.
Why aren't you looking at Glacier, Backblaze B2, or Wasabi? If it's only a few VMs for cold storage, then those 3 will be much cheaper, and B2 and Wasabi are vastly simpler to figure out pricing on.
Do those providers provide a DR situation? If they are only storage, then this is likely not the solution he's looking for.
Correct. I must not have been clear in the original post. Veeam has replication which has advantages over Hyper-V replica native. This can replicate to on site servers, or to DRaaS providers. (I don't think Azure or AWS actually support Veeam Cloud Connect from earlier research).
It looks like ill have to contact providers and get some cold callers hitting me.
Yes, that service only goes to partners, not to cloud providers. So you are dealing with an all-Veeam thing, not a "build it yourself" kind of thing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
What I am specifically trying to do is find costs to use this Veeam technology to send replicas to a cloud provider. DRaaS. If my site goes down, I can use this DRaaS service to spin up my VMs pretty much instantly. Just like I could do with a replica HyperV VM on a different host...
The problem here is, DRaaS includes backups. So this takes us back to "where do you send your backups", once again.
Backups are included in my backups. DRaaS is not the same thing. This is also moving away from the original point.
The point is asking if anybody has advice on quoting up DRaaS, not the theoretical differences between DR and backup. -
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Veeam Cloud Connect
Who do they support? I think that Veeam CC is a service, not something you use to connect to your own storage options like you are looking for.
I think you just want a normal backup, nothing more. I have a feeling you are mixing the idea of having a cloud DR strategy with the search for storage for your backups. They are separate items and what makes sense for the one, doesn't make sense for the other. The products are fundamentally wrong.
Example... it's S3 or Glacier from Amazon, not EC2, that you'd be looking for.
Im not looking to connect and use them for storage. That would be useless to me. This is for DR.
DR requires storage. How do you want DR to work if it can't get the data from the backups?
The DRaaS of course comes with storage. But thats not the reason for using it. The purpose is I can turn on replicas on the DRaaS solution and bring my systems back up on the providers infrastructure. Backups are backups. This is not getting data from backups. The DR has its own copy of replicated VMs.
That would be a backup of the backup. Which is fine to have, but a DR strategy is "how do you spin up your backups and use them." So for the average cloud based DR, it's to backup to S3, Azure, Wasabi, B2, etc. and use that backup to spin up a cloud or non-cloud VM. No need for additional storage in the DR solution, the "almost always" DR use case is that DR pulls from the backup, not that the DR "system or plan" has additional backups of its own.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Backups are included in my backups. DRaaS is not the same thing.
No, but the one is part of the other. DRaaS always includes backups, it has to to be DRaaS. Without it, it's just every day cloud IaaS hosting. Which is the vendors you were initially looking at.
The simplistic view of DRaaS products on the market is that they take two pieces, backups and cloud hosting, and bundle them (generally at higher cost.)
So Azure will do this with Azure cloud and Azure storage. Amazon with EC2 and S3. You could do yourself with Vultr and Wasabi. And on and on. That's really all that it is.
If you don't include backups in the DRaaS, it's really nothing, just every day cloud.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Veeam Cloud Connect
Who do they support? I think that Veeam CC is a service, not something you use to connect to your own storage options like you are looking for.
I think you just want a normal backup, nothing more. I have a feeling you are mixing the idea of having a cloud DR strategy with the search for storage for your backups. They are separate items and what makes sense for the one, doesn't make sense for the other. The products are fundamentally wrong.
Example... it's S3 or Glacier from Amazon, not EC2, that you'd be looking for.
Im not looking to connect and use them for storage. That would be useless to me. This is for DR.
DR requires storage. How do you want DR to work if it can't get the data from the backups?
The DRaaS of course comes with storage. But thats not the reason for using it. The purpose is I can turn on replicas on the DRaaS solution and bring my systems back up on the providers infrastructure. Backups are backups. This is not getting data from backups. The DR has its own copy of replicated VMs.
That would be a backup of the backup. Which is fine to have, but a DR strategy is "how do you spin up your backups and use them." So for the average cloud based DR, it's to backup to S3, Azure, Wasabi, B2, etc. and use that backup to spin up a cloud or non-cloud VM. No need for additional storage in the DR solution, the "almost always" DR use case is that DR pulls from the backup, not that the DR "system or plan" has additional backups of its own.
Thats not a backup of a backup. I have 1 x replica of a VM going to the provider and my site gets screwed (major power outage), I spin up my DR replica and have all my remote staff connecting in minutes. If I instead get a crypto and replica that data, my replica is fucked. This is not a backup.
My backups are already done and in place. In the above example you would have to restore from the backups. Because, they are backups.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
The point is asking if anybody has advice on quoting up DRaaS, not the theoretical differences between DR and backup.
It's not theoretical and all of the pricing depends on understanding what you are paying for. Backup is 90% of the cost of DRaaS, so it's the absolute crux of your question.
If all you want is DR with your existing backups, the cost is trivial to calculate.
You are finding it hard to find the price because you are getting stuck thinking of it as something that it is not.
If the point is only pricing for one specific product, then there's no option but to ask that vendor (Veeam in this case), the price. Going to third parties won't help. If DRaaS outside of that is a question, then we are back to "backup is the key of the pricing of anything remotely related to DRaaS".
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Thats not a backup of a backup. I have 1 x replica of a VM going to the provider and my site gets screwed (major power outage), I spin up my DR replica and have all my remote staff connecting in minutes. If I instead get a crypto and replica that data, my replica is fucked. This is not a backup.
It's the very definition of a backup. In every sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Thats not a backup of a backup. I have 1 x replica of a VM going to the provider and my site gets screwed (major power outage), I spin up my DR replica and have all my remote staff connecting in minutes. If I instead get a crypto and replica that data, my replica is fucked. This is not a backup.
It's the very definition of a backup. In every sense.
Let not argue and go round and round on this. Ill contact some providers to get quotes which I was going to have to do anyway. Just wanted to see from somebody with any experience on this on getting access to any form of costings without having to pick up the phone.
Cheers guys.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
My backups are already done and in place. In the above example you would have to restore from the backups. Because, they are backups.
You have a backup system in place. But you are asking about having a second one. Which is fine, but you can't act like it's not also a backup system, it is, in every sense.
So this is extra confusing because you didn't make this clear until just now, that you HAVE one backup system, but you don't want that connected to this second one.
To be clear, almost all shops refer to that first backup system as their DR system, as well. DR and backups are essentially interchangeable, because DR to 90% of companies means "restore from backup." That's their DR. Having more robust DR than that is wonderful and I'm not implying it isn't. Just explaining why we are very confused and only now starting to learn what you have and what you are looking for. Because normally when someone asks about DR, they mean "backups and some way to spin them up", which you have already presumably. You just want a second backup, and a better/faster "spin up" option as well.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Veeam Replication to Azure:
Just wanted to see from somebody with any experience on this on getting access to any form of costings without having to pick up the phone.
Which is all we were trying to provide. If we knew your storage size needs and VM size needs, we could tell you the DR costs for any cloud provider.
Getting to understand that you didn't want that is all we were trying to clarify. If you read your initial question, you were very specific in asking for calculating Azure or AWS storage and VM costs (DR was a red herring in how the initial question was asked, cost is purely a storage + VM question, that's it's used for DR doesn't affect the cost.) If you look at it, you can see why we needed all of this clarification.
"I am looking to potentially use the replication tool within Veeam B&R to send replicas of key VMs to Azure/AWS for DR purposes. We would not send everything over, only key servers. 1 x Domain Controller, 3 x Web Server and 1 x Database Server. Possibly more, but that is the current list.
How can I calculate prices for running this? The replicas would be offline, so I would expect to only pay storage costs and data inbound costs but no other costs until in a DR situation. I could look at the pricing calculator and add up for generic VMs, but... these are replicas of specific VMs and do not meet templates..."
The parts in bold are the parts that matter. That it's for DR, only key servers, etc. is nice to know, but doesn't change the question. To answer what you asked, all that matters is the provider of choice, the size of the backup, and that's it. Literally, because you were focused on the storage piece only, it literally forced us into a "cost of backup storage" answer, there was nothing else for us to work with.
