Comparing Office Suites
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A similar analogy is when I worked in a grocery store. As a normal worker, I earned nothing from strong sales or good margins. I got the same low pay no matter what happened. So two best things to happen at work would be either an insanely slow day where there was no work to do; or a disaster day (like power out and no lights and all food going bad) simply because it created a day where there was no routine and we got to do totally different from usual work and there was no way to measure success as we were just dealing with a disaster.
To everyone that worked in the store, the worst days for the business were the best days for the workers because we were punished for successful business days and rewarded for failed ones. So if you ask anyone below an owner, we love days with no customers. But if you ask the owners, they hated days with no customers.
Same with MS Office. Owners (the business) feel one thing (if they are aware), and everyone else feels another thing because they don't benefit from the overall business success (in 99% of cases.)
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@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
I've never come across an organisation that doesn't use Office.
All it takes is a company having Chromebooks, which while still pretty niche, are getting more and more common, for MS Office to have little way to function universally at a company. Chromebooks seem to be the biggest "oops, we invested in something and never considered our office suite needs and now have to rethink how we share documents" factor out there. Mostly, I'd guess, it's two decision makers that don't talk and then what do you do. But we see companies talk about Chromebooks a lot. Many avoid them because they can't run Office. But many run them and leave Office. Once in a while, you have someone without office that wants them, but that's still pretty rare.
You can, of course, use O365 Online with a Chromebook and it works as well as it does on Windows (better in some ways) because Chrome is Chrome (and Chrome is the officially recommended and supported platform for MS Office Online) but the assumption of the "need MS Office" thought process is that you need, at least some of the time, the local installed versions and Chromebooks can't do that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Office Suites:
@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
I've never come across an organisation that doesn't use Office.
All it takes is a company having Chromebooks, which while still pretty niche, are getting more and more common, for MS Office to have little way to function universally at a company. Chromebooks seem to be the biggest "oops, we invested in something and never considered our office suite needs and now have to rethink how we share documents" factor out there. Mostly, I'd guess, it's two decision makers that don't talk and then what do you do. But we see companies talk about Chromebooks a lot. Many avoid them because they can't run Office. But many run them and leave Office. Once in a while, you have someone without office that wants them, but that's still pretty rare.
You can, of course, use O365 Online with a Chromebook and it works as well as it does on Windows (better in some ways) because Chrome is Chrome (and Chrome is the officially recommended and supported platform for MS Office Online) but the assumption of the "need MS Office" thought process is that you need, at least some of the time, the local installed versions and Chromebooks can't do that.
It's too bad Chromebooks don't work for every job role and function in an enterprise, or meet the needs for all policies
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Office Suites:
end users have the benefit of already knowing it (in most cases.)
This is a benefit for the owners to, as it reduces training costs, and increases productivity. I've been using Office for years and I'm still pretty rubbish with it (as in only using about 20% of its features), so moving to another office suite would almost certainly reduce my productivity, at least in the short term, whilst I had to learn how to use it.
Calculating the TCO of different suites is an impossible task, but I don't think one should assume that Office is the most expensive, just because it has the highest licencing costs.
Full disclosure, I work for a Microsoft partner, so I may not be entirely unbiased
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@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
This is a benefit for the owners to, as it reduces training costs, and increases productivity.
Absolutely, but the amount is pretty trivial. Every picked up a new office suite? Takes what, ten minutes to be at 99% efficiency? And not everyone, not even most people, are training on MS Office now coming out of school. So the amount that this impacts companies in a positive way isn't what it used to be. And overall usage of Office Suites has dropped so much, even people coming from MS Office backgrounds might not know any more about it than someone just picking it up for the first time.
There are isolated workers for whom this is a big deal (and some even more isolated where it is a big deal in the opposite direction.) But overall, this is a tiny factor. And one of the original selling points on LibreOffice was that it had less of a learning curve, rather than more of one, for people with MS Office experience.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
Calculating the TCO of different suites is an impossible task, but I don't think one should assume that Office is the most expensive, just because it has the highest licencing costs.
Which is why I don't and I'm overly clear that it's the licensing and support overhead, not the licensing cost, that make it hard to justify. The cost is the icing, not the cake.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
I've been using Office for years and I'm still pretty rubbish with it (as in only using about 20% of its features), so moving to another office suite would almost certainly reduce my productivity, at least in the short term, whilst I had to learn how to use it.
Have you tried grabbing LO, Zoho, or G Suite just to see? My guess is you'd have about five minutes of "Where the heck is everything" then about an hour of "oh, yeah forgot where to find that" and then once in a great while have to look for something after that. Unless you are a crazy office power user, of which I've barely even met one in all my travels, the things you need to know how to do on an office suite are so basic and obvious that I can move to most new products and not notice a difference after just a few minutes of poking around; learning curves approach zero.
It's also worth noting that MS Office changes enough version to version that this effect hits MS Office users over and over again and that alone can make the one time effort to switch to something else pay for itself in terms of recurring re-education alone over time.
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I've tried G Suite and struggled.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
I've tried G Suite and struggled.
G Suite is, I feel, the most dramatically different. It's the only one that I find any challenge with, too. It's also quite expensive. Google's take on most things is to not follow interface conventions. I find their email client to be a productivity train wreck, too... so slow, and so weirdly unproductive. But even with their G Suite office tools being the worst, I still find them easy enough to get up and running with quite quickly.
Do you have any memory of the kinds of tasks that were making it hard to use?
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@scottalanmiller Personally I love LibreOffice and Zoho. There are very few things that Office365 can do that they don't. However most businesses I've seen use one of the Office versions and no one ever uses most of the features. Just too heavy also for my liking.
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Office Suites:
All it takes is a company having Chromebooks, which while still pretty niche, are getting more and more common
Chromebooks are getting extremely popular in schools i will add. I go to local high schools all around to assist in dual credit registration and most schools in this area provide every student with chromebooks.
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@jmoore said in Comparing Office Suites:
@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Office Suites:
All it takes is a company having Chromebooks, which while still pretty niche, are getting more and more common
Chromebooks are getting extremely popular in schools i will add. I go to local high schools all around to assist in dual credit registration and most schools in this area provide every student with chromebooks.
Yup, and my college age nieces use them. And a friend going back to school (later in life additional professional cert) just bought one. The last couple of years they seem to have exploded in use.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
've been using Office for years and I'm still pretty rubbish with it (as in only using about 20% of its features),
i feel like this is the norm everywhere. No one uses much of the Office features. So why are people paying for all those features their organization wont use?
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@jmoore said in Comparing Office Suites:
@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
've been using Office for years and I'm still pretty rubbish with it (as in only using about 20% of its features),
i feel like this is the norm everywhere. No one uses much of the Office features. So why are people paying for all those features their organization wont use?
Exactly. I've been using it since one of the initial releases and I'm neither proficient in it nor using anything special.
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@jmoore said in Comparing Office Suites:
@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
've been using Office for years and I'm still pretty rubbish with it (as in only using about 20% of its features),
i feel like this is the norm everywhere. No one uses much of the Office features. So why are people paying for all those features their organization wont use?
It's not about the features anymore, Office hasn't added a feature than 95% of people (or more) have needed in more than 10 years. The reason it keep selling - entrenchment - it's what they already had/have.
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@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Office Suites:
Every picked up a new office suite?
Yes this is absolutely correct. Most Office suites are all very similar. Sure they have a few unique points here and there but when I tried zoho docs it really was like 10 min to cover everything. Libre, OnlyOffice, gsuite, wps, are all basically the same in my opinion. Takes very little time to learn a new one.
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@Dashrender said in Comparing Office Suites:
@jmoore said in Comparing Office Suites:
@Carnival-Boy said in Comparing Office Suites:
've been using Office for years and I'm still pretty rubbish with it (as in only using about 20% of its features),
i feel like this is the norm everywhere. No one uses much of the Office features. So why are people paying for all those features their organization wont use?
It's not about the features anymore, Office hasn't added a feature than 95% of people (or more) have needed in more than 10 years. The reason it keep selling - entrenchment - it's what they already had/have.
Right.... "failure to evaluate business needs".
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The main reason we didn't switch 10+ years ago was our old Word docs looked like shite in OO. updating them all wasn't worth it in management's mind (even though they never got a quote to do such an updating).
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@jmoore said in Comparing Office Suites:
@scottalanmiller said in Comparing Office Suites:
Every picked up a new office suite?
Yes this is absolutely correct. Most Office suites are all very similar. Sure they have a few unique points here and there but when I tried zoho docs it really was like 10 min to cover everything. Libre, OnlyOffice, gsuite, wps, are all basically the same in my opinion. Takes very little time to learn a new one.
Yeah, I've played with WPS and OnlyOffice, too. And both were "usable on the spot" without any extra setup time, too. These days the interfaces are so intuitive I can move between pretty much all of them transparently.
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@Dashrender said in Comparing Office Suites:
The main reason we didn't switch 10+ years ago was our old Word docs looked like shite in OO. updating them all wasn't worth it in management's mind (even though they never got a quote to do such an updating).
While their impression might have been correct... more "didn't evaluate".
Likely wouldn't take much, since MS Office does the conversion. And so does Zoho, and others.
