Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell
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@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Why did you want PowerShell on Linux? For better remote Windows management?
Since it doesn't do that, that wouldn't make any sense. We wanted it for app management of apps that use APIs only available in PS, but not for Windows management in any way. Obviously, we want Bash for Windows management, it works better.
I was thinking more along the lines of running a PowerShell script. You have to choose a server to run it on. I'd rather run it for free on Linux, rather than pay for a Windows Server license.
But you can run that in Bash, Python, etc all better than PS. Ps offers no advantages.
Of course if you WRITE the script in PS, it has to run in PS. But you'd not write it if you aren't using it. And the script that does the work has to run on the Windows box, not Linux, so just use Bash for a better experience.
Not if the PowerShell script interacts with things BASH does not interact with as well or efficiently as, or not at all with.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
What doesn't use Rest API? Sounds like a horrible service and app.
Most things don't use a Rest API. Rest is nice, but most stuff doesn't use that. That's extremely modern and if you work with MS products, you rarely get things that are modern or well designed. Hence this entire discussion of a shell that should never have existed at all, and yet it does. Same principle.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Not if the PowerShell script interacts with things BASH does not interact with as well or efficiently as, or not at all with.
Example? I get this in concept, but I'm not aware of anything that falls into this category. AFAIK Bash does this better or equally in all scenarios.
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I used PowerShell today and it was awesome.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
I used PowerShell today and it was awesome.
It actually works better on Linux than on Windows. Launches faster, and integrates quite well. If you like PS, it actually is 100% functional on Linux. And that's PS6, not the old version that Windows ships.
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@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
I used PowerShell today and it was awesome.
It actually works better on Linux than on Windows. Launches faster, and integrates quite well. If you like PS, it actually is 100% functional on Linux. And that's PS6, not the old version that Windows ships.
Yeah 6 is great. That's what I use unless I need a specific Windows module.
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Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
I used PowerShell today and it was awesome.
It actually works better on Linux than on Windows. Launches faster, and integrates quite well. If you like PS, it actually is 100% functional on Linux. And that's PS6, not the old version that Windows ships.
Yeah 6 is great. That's what I use unless I need a specific Windows module.
Unfortunately we need those specific modules for SO many tasks that we do every day. Otherwise we'd happily use PS6 Core on Linux.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
What's new in 7 of interest?
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@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
What's new in 7 of interest?
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2019/04/05/powershell-7-coming.aspx?m=1
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
What's new in 7 of interest?
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2019/04/05/powershell-7-coming.aspx?m=1
Sounds like basically nothing. Striving for 90% compatibility, but that's a far cry from "able to replace." Other than cleaning up some branding and normal invisible updates, nothing of note coming as you'll still be running PS and PSC side by side with PSC indefinitely "not ready yet" to take over
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@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
What's new in 7 of interest?
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2019/04/05/powershell-7-coming.aspx?m=1
Sounds like basically nothing. Striving for 90% compatibility, but that's a far cry from "able to replace." Other than cleaning up some branding and normal invisible updates, nothing of note coming as you'll still be running PS and PSC side by side with PSC indefinitely "not ready yet" to take over
Getting better, exciting changes! I'm looking forward to everything. It's all good stuff IMO.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
What's new in 7 of interest?
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2019/04/05/powershell-7-coming.aspx?m=1
Sounds like basically nothing. Striving for 90% compatibility, but that's a far cry from "able to replace." Other than cleaning up some branding and normal invisible updates, nothing of note coming as you'll still be running PS and PSC side by side with PSC indefinitely "not ready yet" to take over
Getting better, exciting changes! I'm looking forward to everything. It's all good stuff IMO.
Better, yes. Just seems to move like molasses. Such tiny changes, they have a gap to breach and they need to just bite the bullet and do it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
Just wait until .NET Core 3 and PS7! You will see the light.
What's new in 7 of interest?
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2019/04/05/powershell-7-coming.aspx?m=1
Sounds like basically nothing. Striving for 90% compatibility, but that's a far cry from "able to replace." Other than cleaning up some branding and normal invisible updates, nothing of note coming as you'll still be running PS and PSC side by side with PSC indefinitely "not ready yet" to take over
Getting better, exciting changes! I'm looking forward to everything. It's all good stuff IMO.
Better, yes. Just seems to move like molasses. Such tiny changes, they have a gap to breach and they need to just bite the bullet and do it.
I wouldn't call them tiny, it also depends on .NET Core 7.
It's still moving faster than some software
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I skipped the discussion, but I see two main points here:
- Plenty of DSLs support both Windows and Linux, they are made for automation, use them.
- For anything more complex, where you actually have to script and a DSL gets too clunky, bash/powershell also tend to get too clunky and hacky to be useful. I simply revert to Python - it runs on both platforms and is much more powerful than either bash or powershell.
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@dyasny said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
bash/powershell also tend to get too clunky and hacky to be useful. I simply revert to Python - it runs on both platforms and is much more powerful than either bash or powershell.
Absolutely, I never use BASH for any serious automation. Nor PowerShell. Neither is a good tool once you go beyond "shell" functionality.
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@scottalanmiller said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
@dyasny said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
bash/powershell also tend to get too clunky and hacky to be useful. I simply revert to Python - it runs on both platforms and is much more powerful than either bash or powershell.
Absolutely, I never use BASH for any serious automation. Nor PowerShell. Neither is a good tool once you go beyond "shell" functionality.
What's beyond shell functionality? I don't think I've come to that point or had a need to?
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I think if rather use node for things past Bash or powershell. By design I think it would be a better performer than Python.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
What's beyond shell functionality? I don't think I've come to that point or had a need to?
Once you are writing anything extensive. Long scripts where you'd want to move past vi and whipping it up in an hour or two. Once you move from "quick couple things strung together" to "writing software to manage automation".
The ability to be a good shell basically guarantees you can't be good at automation. BASH and PS are both good examples of this. They try to do too much, and it encourages people to use them for too much. PS especially.
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@Obsolesce said in Shell Speeds, Bash and PowerShell:
I think if rather use node for things past Bash or powershell. By design I think it would be a better performer than Python.
Not at all. First, Node seems fast because it's not a language, but a large framework. Python isn't really slower than Node, it might be faster in fact. But Node has a singular design purpose and that's not system automation. And if you use it for system automation, none of those performance perceptions apply and I think you'd be sad with how slow it is. In fact, Node can't thread last I knew, making it way, way slower than Python. One of the reasons we like Python for automation is that it has great performance. Plus it is easier to write and maintain. So layers of advantages.
Node is purpose built for making websites and basically nothing else. that doesn't mean it can't do other things, but it's designed totally around that use case. And scalling horizontally.
Python is already a shell when its REPL is enabled (IDLE) and has a higher performance core, doesn't use Prototyping, doesn't require objects, and is mostly focused on scripting as its core function making it basically the ideal automation language.
