Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?
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@jmoore said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs If it is running and using server software then that machine is acting as a server. I think that is what is meant. Hope that makes sense.
Yeah, it's a duck situation. If you don't want to get into legalise of the EULA...
If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's a duck.
If it looks like a server and acts like a server, it's a server.
In this case, it couldn't look more like a server. It's clearly "the server", it is provides multiple services to other machines and people, and both the actions it performs (database server) and the product it runs (MS SQL Server) have "server" in the names. No grey area, it's as server as a server can be.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@jmoore said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs If it is running and using server software then that machine is acting as a server. I think that is what is meant. Hope that makes sense.
Yeah, it's a duck situation. If you don't want to get into legalise of the EULA...
If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's a duck.
If it looks like a server and acts like a server, it's a server.
In this case, it couldn't look more like a server. It's clearly "the server", it is provides multiple services to other machines and people, and both the actions it performs (database server) and the product it runs (MS SQL Server) have "server" in the names. No grey area, it's as server as a server can be.
I'm not disputing that it is a server - I think there was confusion here - I know that it is acting like a server so therefore it is a server.
The confusion came from the question of "what makes this a server" up above. -
@jmoore said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs In my opinion you arent doing anything wrong. You did not make the decision to run it like this. Someone else did and that mistake is theirs.
Absolutely. But add this to your list of "my employer is pirating software and can't claim to be competent or a CIO and not know better." As techs, many of us are not tasked with understanding licensing. But anyone accepting the CIO hat (by running the IT department) legally accepts that responsibility.
This does two things...
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Provides more foundation for what we've been telling you... that these are bad people doing bad things poorly. They aren't good mentors, nor good people. Yes, people make mistakes. Yes, licensing is a little hard at times. But this is totally predictable from how you've described them in other ways. If this was an isolated situation, sure, we might say to mention it to them and let them fix it (at insane cost, and admitting to store after store that they screwed up the most basic stuff that they should have known.) But you know that they won't consider that and will be really mad if you tell them. We know this, you know it. It's just that this helps you understand that you aren't learning from these guys, they aren't providing you with benefits.
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You have more to keep under your belt. If they piss you off, or just when you leave in general, you know that they are stealing software. Likely a lot of it. If they have as many as two of these deployments, that one thing alone puts them in the category of grand theft. This could be a pretty massive piracy operation that they have going on. And they get paid to do this on behalf of the customers. Each customer is actually on the hook for this licensing, the consultancy would not be looking at licensing violations themselves, but criminal negligence and potentially organized crime laws (as they are essentially running a piracy ring - getting paid to steal software on behalf of the clients.) That would depend on how MS' lawyers decided to skin the cat.
But understanding those aspects are important. But none of it is your fault. You aren't in charge of licenses, you aren't in charge of installs. So you aren't the one stealing the software or making someone steal the software.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@jmoore said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs If it is running and using server software then that machine is acting as a server. I think that is what is meant. Hope that makes sense.
Yeah, it's a duck situation. If you don't want to get into legalise of the EULA...
If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's a duck.
If it looks like a server and acts like a server, it's a server.
In this case, it couldn't look more like a server. It's clearly "the server", it is provides multiple services to other machines and people, and both the actions it performs (database server) and the product it runs (MS SQL Server) have "server" in the names. No grey area, it's as server as a server can be.
Yea the sticky situation of, by all definitions this is wrong; however, there is not much I can change. All likelihood even selecting a different point of service product needs the same topology and may even prevent you from using it in the "legal" manner.
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
I'm not disputing that it is a server - I think there was confusion here - I know that it is acting like a server so therefore it is a server.
The confusion came from the question of "what makes this a server" up above.Not saying that you are. I mean that in Microsoft licensing terms, it's a server. What people like to claim is that MS Workstation OSes can be servers "unless we need the physical functions only available in the server OS." This is where they are making things up. The commonly stated (but not held) belief is that there are exceptions and that things that are obviously a server don't need server licensing.
But in the MS licensing world, they use the duck system. If it is "like" a server, it has to be licensed as a server. So knowing it is a server is one thing, knowing that being a server requires a server license is another.
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@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
Yea the sticky situation of, by all definitions this is wrong; however, there is not much I can change. All likelihood even selecting a different point of service product needs the same topology and may even prevent you from using it in the "legal" manner.
No vendor is going to block you from deploying legally. You could eat them alive - because they have no supported option in that case. You could go public and destroy them. Oracle, Aloha, etc. are all happy, thrilled in fact, for you to deploy properly on a server OS. They just don't make those decisions for you as it isn't their place. But they don't want you running on desktop hardware or software. That's not in their interest.
There will be zero barrier to legal deployment, other than it being more costly and lots of companies asking point blank "of course we are okay with stealing the software, the question is can we get away with it?" And when you say "almost certainly you'll get away with it", they will pirate, almost every time.
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@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
With that said, Oracle Xstore is not even supported on Windows Server.
What this means is that the product simply isn't supported anywhere in the first world. It has no supported stack. For something to be "supported" in IT terms requires support end to end. With Xstore, this means that they don't have any support stack.
Lots of really crappy hobby class vendors (Oracle is this for sure) do this as a trick to guarantee zero legal accountability for support. If you run a desktop OS, they can claim that that isn't a server product and they can't support you (and they can threaten to turn you over to MS if they want - they have bilateral agreements for this through the BSA.) And if you don't run on a desktop OS, they can claim you don't fall under their support. This guarantees them an "out" to not support you no matter what you do. There is no possible end to end support path, none. It's impossible.
In IT terms, it simply means that it is an unsupported product. Across the board. It simply exists without support. Caveat emptor. Anyone buying it simply can't tell their companies that they got a supported product. They paid for commercial, closed source software without a support agreement. Oracle may or may not provide support, but is never required to. It's purely at their discretion.
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All licensing aside, @WrCombs what is the memory situation now?
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
With that said, Oracle Xstore is not even supported on Windows Server.
What this means is that the product simply isn't supported anywhere in the first world. It has no supported stack. For something to be "supported" in IT terms requires support end to end. With Xstore, this means that they don't have any support stack.
Lots of really crappy hobby class vendors (Oracle is this for sure) do this as a trick to guarantee zero legal accountability for support. If you run a desktop OS, they can claim that that isn't a server product and they can't support you (and they can threaten to turn you over to MS if they want - they have bilateral agreements for this through the BSA.) And if you don't run on a desktop OS, they can claim you don't fall under their support. This guarantees them an "out" to not support you no matter what you do. There is no possible end to end support path, none. It's impossible.
In IT terms, it simply means that it is an unsupported product. Across the board. It simply exists without support. Caveat emptor. Anyone buying it simply can't tell their companies that they got a supported product. They paid for commercial, closed source software without a support agreement. Oracle may or may not provide support, but is never required to. It's purely at their discretion.
Scott I just found this article.
https://logicalread.com/sql-server-express-as-a-production-database/#.XKZF-VVKjRY
Does this hold an real validation?
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
All licensing aside, @WrCombs what is the memory situation now?
lol okay.
It seems that I have 50+ instances ofjavaw.exerunning at once,
I found that in the startup folder, there is an oracle Java updater in there.
I disabled it and cut the RAM usage in literal Half from what it was using at the start prior to the reboot .
Since I dont see anywhere that we would use Java Im going to leave it disabled -
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
All licensing aside, @WrCombs what is the memory situation now?
lol okay.
It seems that I have 50+ instances ofjavaw.exerunning at once,
I found that in the startup folder, there is an oracle Java updater in there.
I disabled it and cut the RAM usage in literal Half from what it was using at the start prior to the reboot .
Since I dont see anywhere that we would use Java Im going to leave it disabledEven one Java instance might cause an issue. But fifty!!
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
All licensing aside, @WrCombs what is the memory situation now?
lol okay.
It seems that I have 50+ instances ofjavaw.exerunning at once,
I found that in the startup folder, there is an oracle Java updater in there.
I disabled it and cut the RAM usage in literal Half from what it was using at the start prior to the reboot .
Since I dont see anywhere that we would use Java Im going to leave it disabledEven one Java instance might cause an issue. But fifty!?
Exactly my thought.
Maybe Java wasn't writing over the other instance? I'm not sure. -
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
With that said, Oracle Xstore is not even supported on Windows Server.
What this means is that the product simply isn't supported anywhere in the first world. It has no supported stack. For something to be "supported" in IT terms requires support end to end. With Xstore, this means that they don't have any support stack.
Lots of really crappy hobby class vendors (Oracle is this for sure) do this as a trick to guarantee zero legal accountability for support. If you run a desktop OS, they can claim that that isn't a server product and they can't support you (and they can threaten to turn you over to MS if they want - they have bilateral agreements for this through the BSA.) And if you don't run on a desktop OS, they can claim you don't fall under their support. This guarantees them an "out" to not support you no matter what you do. There is no possible end to end support path, none. It's impossible.
In IT terms, it simply means that it is an unsupported product. Across the board. It simply exists without support. Caveat emptor. Anyone buying it simply can't tell their companies that they got a supported product. They paid for commercial, closed source software without a support agreement. Oracle may or may not provide support, but is never required to. It's purely at their discretion.
Scott I just found this article.
https://logicalread.com/sql-server-express-as-a-production-database/#.XKZF-VVKjRY
Does this hold an real validation?
So I saw nothing amiss in the article. But I also found nothing related to this discussion in it, either. The article is about MS SQL Server, which was never in question. It is Windows 7 that is being used instead of paying for the Windows Server license which is required. That MS SQL Server is involved is neither here nor there.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
With that said, Oracle Xstore is not even supported on Windows Server.
What this means is that the product simply isn't supported anywhere in the first world. It has no supported stack. For something to be "supported" in IT terms requires support end to end. With Xstore, this means that they don't have any support stack.
Lots of really crappy hobby class vendors (Oracle is this for sure) do this as a trick to guarantee zero legal accountability for support. If you run a desktop OS, they can claim that that isn't a server product and they can't support you (and they can threaten to turn you over to MS if they want - they have bilateral agreements for this through the BSA.) And if you don't run on a desktop OS, they can claim you don't fall under their support. This guarantees them an "out" to not support you no matter what you do. There is no possible end to end support path, none. It's impossible.
In IT terms, it simply means that it is an unsupported product. Across the board. It simply exists without support. Caveat emptor. Anyone buying it simply can't tell their companies that they got a supported product. They paid for commercial, closed source software without a support agreement. Oracle may or may not provide support, but is never required to. It's purely at their discretion.
Scott I just found this article.
https://logicalread.com/sql-server-express-as-a-production-database/#.XKZF-VVKjRY
Does this hold an real validation?
So I saw nothing amiss in the article. But I also found nothing related to this discussion in it, either. The article is about MS SQL Server, which was never in question. It is Windows 7 that is being used instead of paying for the Windows Server license which is required. That MS SQL Server is involved is neither here nor there.
we use MS SQL Server Express.
I guess I just thought it was related. -
MS SQL Server Express is absolutely, without question, allowed to be used in production.
To use it as a production server providing services to others, it must be run on an OS that is allowed to run it in that way. This would be either a Windows Server OS, or any Linux OS for free. So there is a free option for this (even cheaper than a Windows desktop.)
To use it as a development station without providing services to others, it can be run absolutely anywhere including a Windows desktop OS.
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@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
we use MS SQL Server Express.
I guess I just thought it was related.We know you do. But no one is questioning anything about that.
Imagine that we were having a restaurant discussion and the police stop you for stealing a hamburger. And you point out that you bought french fries. Yes, you bought french fries, but that really doesn't change the fact that you ran away with a stolen hamburger.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
With that said, Oracle Xstore is not even supported on Windows Server.
What this means is that the product simply isn't supported anywhere in the first world. It has no supported stack. For something to be "supported" in IT terms requires support end to end. With Xstore, this means that they don't have any support stack.
Lots of really crappy hobby class vendors (Oracle is this for sure) do this as a trick to guarantee zero legal accountability for support. If you run a desktop OS, they can claim that that isn't a server product and they can't support you (and they can threaten to turn you over to MS if they want - they have bilateral agreements for this through the BSA.) And if you don't run on a desktop OS, they can claim you don't fall under their support. This guarantees them an "out" to not support you no matter what you do. There is no possible end to end support path, none. It's impossible.
In IT terms, it simply means that it is an unsupported product. Across the board. It simply exists without support. Caveat emptor. Anyone buying it simply can't tell their companies that they got a supported product. They paid for commercial, closed source software without a support agreement. Oracle may or may not provide support, but is never required to. It's purely at their discretion.
Scott I just found this article.
https://logicalread.com/sql-server-express-as-a-production-database/#.XKZF-VVKjRY
Does this hold an real validation?
So I saw nothing amiss in the article. But I also found nothing related to this discussion in it, either. The article is about MS SQL Server, which was never in question. It is Windows 7 that is being used instead of paying for the Windows Server license which is required. That MS SQL Server is involved is neither here nor there.
I think he is referring to the last section which doesn't relate to licensing just where the software will run
SQL Server Express is a great choice for small-scale, cost-effective multi-user database implementations. It can run on both Windows
desktop operating systems like Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, as well as server operating systems like Windows Server 2008, 2008 R2, 2012, and 2012 R2. It is completely compatible with the Standard, Business Intelligence, and Enterprise editions of SQL Server 2014, and can be upgraded to any of these editions. Microsoft SQL Server Express is employed by many Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) as a built-in database and it can be included in your own installation packages. You can download all of the SQL Server 2014 Express editions for free from Download Microsoft SQL Server 2014 Express. -
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
@WrCombs said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
we use MS SQL Server Express.
I guess I just thought it was related.We know you do. But no one is questioning anything about that.
Imagine that we were having a restaurant discussion and the police stop you for stealing a hamburger. And you point out that you bought french fries. Yes, you bought french fries, but that really doesn't change the fact that you ran away with a stolen hamburger.
Ah, Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up
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@donaldlandru said in Windows 7 Pro 32 bit - Low on Memory... Ideas?:
which doesn't relate to licensing just where the software will run
Correct. It can run there, and there are use cases where that is legal, but it never says that it can run there and be used as a server.
And MS SQL Server licensing, like Oracle or Aloha licensing, isn't related to the OS licensing. Even thought MS SQL Server is currently made by Microsoft, as is the OS, this was not always the case and isn't really relevant. Stating where something "can" run, is unrelated to "specific situations where different kinds of licensing are required."
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Think about it more like this...
You have a primary product: Windows Server. You have to pay for this to use this (using Windows 7 in this way is using Windows Server without paying for it.) The agreement, or licensing situation, involved here is between you and Microsoft for this one product. That's one discussion.
Then you have a secondary product vendor. This could be anyone. Oracle, NCR Aloha, MS SQL Server Express, etc. By buying a product from this third party, it doesn't give you free access to Windows Server. That would make no sense.
Video coming because I like the analogy and want to do it justice.
