All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
The problem
wasto be solvedphonesis the routing problems of our calllflow situationFTFY
well - really, it's one of HR - but they have basically said they will never fix that one.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Moving to an alternative system whole sale would be a minimum of $100/phone - $12,200 + power bricks or POE switches for buildings 1(2 switches at $850/ea) and 3 (1 switch at $400).
That $100 would get you a Yealink T42S + power brick, easily. That is Amazon pricing. You can likely find lower cost by getting into distribution channels.
Yeah, T42S comes with the power brick for under $100! All in one box.
I know of no T4 series phone sthat ship with a power brick.
Telephony Depot has this. I created an account with them ages ago for a client. It does seem they only want resellers now though. So /shrug.
I really don't want power bricks - and I'm not sure that would be acceptable anyhow.
Which brings up another question - which phones must work during a power outage? Currently they ALL work because they are on UPS for POE/VOIP phones, or UPS on the digital system - at least as long as the battery is good - about 20 mins.
So the business could decide a smaller UPS and specific phones - or everything goes POE.
Or you get a softphone and install that on everyone's mobile.
Would work without power directly attached to the phone.
That's a good option.
To do this we would be required to give everybody a stipend to pay for their cell phones. This would also mean that everyone has to have a cell phone. This would not work for the way that much of our call routing works.
Only for those that want them. It's free and costs them nothing. So no stipend needed.
Yeah there is no stipend to pay at all. Since you have WiFi and everyone is reasonably expected to have WiFi in their lives that is free to use.
So there is no added cost that the employee would foot, so there is no added cost to pay out.
Our management and users don’t see it that way. Today it’s requires to provide your own works clothes, but not cell phones.... you want them to have to use one, then you provide or pay... but as scott said only those who want it... ok those few could have it, but it wouldn’t affect the number of phones we would need
A softphone on their computer is still a phone.
Just because you can also have a physical desk phone and a softphone on their mobile doesn't mean you're limited.
The whole point of using soft bones was to get rid of the expense of having a desk phone
But you just said you needed a phone. meaning physical phones in those locations.
So are you okay with maybe 100 softphones and only 20 desk phones?
No we need 122 Hard phones.
We might be able to add another hundred soft phones that would hardly ever been used.
The problem was solved phones is the routing problems of our calll flow situationOK - totally bad voice to text there - bad siri! BAD!
We have many work flows that rely on a physical location, not a person. 70% of staff work in these rotating positions, so there is not very much use in assigning something to this 70%. Providing them with a softphone, while still having the hardphone I suppose could possibly add some funcationality, but that seems pretty unlikely.
The biggest place that softphones would be useful is providers themselves. The staff could then possibly just call the providers extension - and locate them where ever they are. Frankly I think the providers will like this idea at first - the quickly tire of being so easily found and turn it off.
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
There are good reasons to go both ways. We find bricks to be better more often than not.
The lack of a need to plug another device in to a desk in an office is a large benefit actually.
Can be, certainly. I hate those wall warts, but often we find them to be out of the way and save money and effort over revamping the back end.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Moving to an alternative system whole sale would be a minimum of $100/phone - $12,200 + power bricks or POE switches for buildings 1(2 switches at $850/ea) and 3 (1 switch at $400).
That $100 would get you a Yealink T42S + power brick, easily. That is Amazon pricing. You can likely find lower cost by getting into distribution channels.
Yeah, T42S comes with the power brick for under $100! All in one box.
I know of no T4 series phone sthat ship with a power brick.
Telephony Depot has this. I created an account with them ages ago for a client. It does seem they only want resellers now though. So /shrug.
I really don't want power bricks - and I'm not sure that would be acceptable anyhow.
Which brings up another question - which phones must work during a power outage? Currently they ALL work because they are on UPS for POE/VOIP phones, or UPS on the digital system - at least as long as the battery is good - about 20 mins.
So the business could decide a smaller UPS and specific phones - or everything goes POE.
Or you get a softphone and install that on everyone's mobile.
Would work without power directly attached to the phone.
That's a good option.
To do this we would be required to give everybody a stipend to pay for their cell phones. This would also mean that everyone has to have a cell phone. This would not work for the way that much of our call routing works.
Only for those that want them. It's free and costs them nothing. So no stipend needed.
Yeah there is no stipend to pay at all. Since you have WiFi and everyone is reasonably expected to have WiFi in their lives that is free to use.
So there is no added cost that the employee would foot, so there is no added cost to pay out.
Our management and users don’t see it that way. Today it’s requires to provide your own works clothes, but not cell phones.... you want them to have to use one, then you provide or pay... but as scott said only those who want it... ok those few could have it, but it wouldn’t affect the number of phones we would need
That's a different issue and not part of the cost of it. that they WANT an excuse to pay for things, fine. But it's not part of the decision cost.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
Same. It's just a much better option in the long haul.
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@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
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@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
So eliminate the responsibility of having to plug things in.
Get a softphone and have people start using that wholesale.
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@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@scottalanmiller said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@DustinB3403 said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
You could also opt to purchase a few $25 poe injectors for the few phones that are required to have power all of the time and feed that from your UPS.
The cost difference for Poe switch vs non is 400$.... over 48 phones that’s less tha $10 ea
Let’s move on from POE
But that's way more than wall warts typically. And the comparison is not against a normal switch, but against no switch. You don't need any switching at all beyond what you already have unless you go PoE, right?
That is not right. I'm 50% or more laptops. So I would need at least another 30 ports, but probably more like 40 ports to include phones in random locations.
Where you don't have ports today?
It's not that you are laptops. I think you are trying to imply that your laptops are wireless?
I may or may not have a wire there - but I definitely don't have a switch port connected to those wires. I replaced switches a while ago and didn't buy more than I needed for the APs, Printers, and Desktops.
yes the laptops are 100% wireless.
I see. Wherever we have a large amount of laptops, we wire them up for performance and stability.
My users have shown that when they have to manage plugs on a daily basis, they damage them regularly. We're lucky we don't have more issues with power connectors.
So eliminate the responsibility of having to plug things in.
Get a softphone and have people start using that wholesale.
huh? not sure where this came from?
today users move from station to station, only plugging in their power brick to power their laptops. They just use the phone at the desk they are sitting at that time.
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So this thread kinda went all over the place yesterday.
recap
Stay with Mitel - Pay $10K to upgrade old digital system, keep current phones, replace as they fail.
Just to have another number to work with - if I replaced all of the OLD digital phones (34) that would add another $168/ea = $5712Move to FreePBX, purchase 122 new phones, 3 new switches, Plus unknown cabling changes (many phones currently run on CAT 3 - at minimum, those lines would need to be pulled out and moved to the networking closet and connected to a switch = cost)
122 * $87 = $10,614
switches = $2250
total before cabling changes $12,864So I could move to a whole new system for approx $13,000
or an updated Mitel with more modern phones to replace really old ones for about $16,000Or do a bare bone comparison
Mitel $10,000 no other changes
All New - $13,000 + cabling unknown. -
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
So this thread kinda went all over the place yesterday.
recap
Stay with Mitel - Pay $10K to upgrade old digital system, keep current phones, replace as they fail.
Just to have another number to work with - if I replaced all of the OLD digital phones (34) that would add another $168/ea = $5712Move to FreePBX, purchase 122 new phones, 3 new switches, Plus unknown cabling changes (many phones currently run on CAT 3 - at minimum, those lines would need to be pulled out and moved to the networking closet and connected to a switch = cost)
122 * $87 = $10,614
switches = $2250
total before cabling changes $12,864So I could move to a whole new system for approx $13,000
or an updated Mitel with more modern phones to replace really old ones for about $16,000Or do a bare bone comparison
Mitel $10,000 no other changes
All New - $13,000 + cabling unknown.Wrong comparison.
All New:- Mitel - $16,000 + cabling
- FreePBX - $13,000 + cabling
Upgrade Mitel but keep old phones - $10,000
Apples and Oranges and stuff.
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Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted). -
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted).You can absolutely rewire standard 2 pair CAT3 for PoE. You will likely need to tell the switch to use 10mb Full so it does not drop all the time trying to negotiate higher speeds. I owuld never want to run something else behind a phone like this.
It is in the spec of CAT3. Even if everyone doens't remember the 90's.
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The 802.3af standard fully supports CAT3 with PoE.
In this image from Wikipedia, you can see that in the column 10/100 mode A, mixed DC & Data,
Pins 1, 2, 3, & 6.
All you need is for an installer to reterminate your current RJ11 to RJ45 using the 4 wires in the CAT3 cable.
On the other end, they rip it off the 66 blocks and terminate them in a new patch panel.
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@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@Dashrender said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
@JaredBusch said in All New VoIP Handsets for PBX Migration?:
Next up, do you know that the digital phones are on CAT3? Even if so, that is still capable of PoE and fast ethernet speed. Everything has to be reterminated no matter what, so by that point pulling cbales to make it CAT5e/6a really is not much more.
If the wiring is CAT5 or better already then you jsut need to pay for everything to be reterminated.
I'm 90% sure it's CAT 3. These lines were installed in the early 90's.
There's not that many that would need to be redone. Just the ones hanging on walls with no computers near by. That's 10 (just counted).You can absolutely rewire standard 2 pair CAT3 for PoE. You will likely need to tell the switch to use 10mb Full so it does not drop all the time trying to negotiate higher speeds. I owuld never want to run something else behind a phone like this.
It is in the spec of CAT3. Even if everyone doens't remember the 90's.
oh - no worries on running a PC behind a phone like this.
