Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be
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Can I get the TL;DR version?
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
If the "pay reduction" is in writing I'd walk. They've fired you and are wanting you to work for peanuts.
This comment seems to be in relation to what I said about vacation and sick time. Those aren't a requirement where I live, they are a benefit offered by employer, they make the rules.
Technically they are not offered to part time employees, which I currently am. But they let it accumulate anyway, until now. So they just stopped accumulating.
I used to get a cell phone stipend which was kind of a retainer for "please check if we text you or call, just in case something crazy happens." They stopped that, presumably also because my hours are so reduced.
So did they "reduce my pay", well, kinda sorta. Officially their benefits were for full time, but they allowed it for me anyway, then stopped it. So kinda, kinda sorta, bending the rules, playing them a bit.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
The whole "they can't make me teach people" because I'm not a professor and it's not in my job description. That was funny, because nobody who has ever worked here has been able to use the "not my job description" line on them. They would say the job description is whatever they say it is, since they are the boss and you work for them
That's BS. Yes, they can make you do anything legal, but your pay and ability to be judged for being capable are tied to the description as you agreed to it. Can they make you teach? Sure. Can they make you teach well, nope. Can they make you do it even remotely acceptably? Nope. You never claimed to be a teacher. That's a major skill. They can't put any expectation of performance on it. Nor can they ask you to do a totally different job than the one you were hired to do without prompting your ability to ask for a whole new pay package.
There is a huge gap between asking you to take out the trash at the end of the day, and asking you to be better at a job you have no association with than everyone else is. I can't just "tell you" to be an artist, or a musician, or an engineer, or an IT pro, or a teacher. Try this... just tell them that their new job is to be IT.
Is it magic? Did making it their job description make them able to do it? Nope.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
I have a similar feeling as you - I want the thing to run right, etc. But something that Scott has drilled into me over and over again is - IT serves the business, not the other way around. This means if they don't care, you can't decide they should. No amount of caring on your part is going to make them do the right thing. You have to move yourself to a point where you care only about what they care about, and nothing else, - or leave.
Well, they don't care, until they think they DO need to start caring.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
If the "pay reduction" is in writing I'd walk. They've fired you and are wanting you to work for peanuts.
This comment seems to be in relation to what I said about vacation and sick time. Those aren't a requirement where I live, they are a benefit offered by employer, they make the rules.
Technically they are not offered to part time employees, which I currently am. But they let it accumulate anyway, until now. So they just stopped accumulating.
I used to get a cell phone stipend which was kind of a retainer for "please check if we text you or call, just in case something crazy happens." They stopped that, presumably also because my hours are so reduced.
So did they "reduce my pay", well, kinda sorta. Officially their benefits were for full time, but they allowed it for me anyway, then stopped it. So kinda, kinda sorta, bending the rules, playing them a bit.
So they did reduce your pay absolutely in every conceivable way. No kinda, no sorta. You describe it exactly as a reduction in pay. Your pay package just reduced, period. Nothing you mention makes it "kinda" in the slightest.
No one said that they weren't allowed to reduce them, only that they did. Also, we said that in doing so, you don't have to show up any more, either. That's the point. They triggered a "no need for notice" situation.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
And if there is no replacement planned, then you are just... done now?
This was the worst part of our conversation.
I fully assumed that when they heard tell of me leaving, the idea would be to start finding my replacement. Sounds reasonable.
Instead it turns into this "document everything so laypeople can follow your how-tos" and "write an IT functions book" and "we can hire an outside IT company for some stuff but you need to document all the internal stuff for us".
In other words, it wasn't "let's look for a replacement" but "how can we NOT NEED a replacement at all?" And I wasn't expecting that kind of thing.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
I have a similar feeling as you - I want the thing to run right, etc. But something that Scott has drilled into me over and over again is - IT serves the business, not the other way around. This means if they don't care, you can't decide they should. No amount of caring on your part is going to make them do the right thing. You have to move yourself to a point where you care only about what they care about, and nothing else, - or leave.
Well, they don't care, until they think they DO need to start caring.
That's the same as not caring. You are playing games trying to find a way to make this not their fault. This is their fault, 100%. And it's not a mistake from long ago that they aren't fixing, that would be unfortunate. But this is a failure going on right this second actively that they don't care about. They decided not to replace you, and are continuing to abide by that decision. At any moment they could say "oh gosh, that was dumb, let's hire someone." If they did that, things would change, slightly. But as they've not done so, their "failure" and their "not caring" are active things happening as we speak.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Instead it turns into this "document everything so laypeople can follow your how-tos" and "write an IT functions book" and "we can hire an outside IT company for some stuff but you need to document all the internal stuff for us".
In other words, it wasn't "let's look for a replacement" but "how can we NOT NEED a replacement at all?" And I wasn't expecting that kind of thing.This is where saying "this is simply something I can't do... I literally CANNOT do it, it's not about wanting to or not, it's about ability." If you want a teacher than can teach someone from lay to pro, you need someone specifically skilled in that. That's not you. So it's all done now.
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Put this into context of ANY other job. An engineer quit, a designer quit, a mechanic quit....
Now before they leave tell them to document their skilled, professional job so that the secretary or receptionist or office manager can just do it.
It's not just an impossible demand, it's also a huge slap in the face. They are telling you just how little they think of what you do.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
This is such a pain! I didn't actually turn in a notice or set a last day, which I'm regretting now. But I'm a non-confrontational person. I just want them to be happy and I want to personally feel like I've done a professional job leaving documentation behind. I'm just trying to figure out a balance.
The more you try to do, the worse it will be. You are going to give them false hope and build up false expectations. The more you do, the more they will be upset.
I feel this already. We had an hour+ meeting the day after I had the first talk. All the crap they want from me, new formats, how they want it, in what order. I already felt the pain of this very thing. Now I know, whatever I document won't be good enough, where it's stored, how it's organized, will never be good enough because there will always be some aspect they don't understand, and if they don't understand it, it must be because I'm not doing good enough.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
This is such a pain! I didn't actually turn in a notice or set a last day, which I'm regretting now. But I'm a non-confrontational person. I just want them to be happy and I want to personally feel like I've done a professional job leaving documentation behind. I'm just trying to figure out a balance.
The more you try to do, the worse it will be. You are going to give them false hope and build up false expectations. The more you do, the more they will be upset.
I feel this already. We had an hour+ meeting the day after I had the first talk. All the crap they want from me, new formats, how they want it, in what order. I already felt the pain of this very thing. Now I know, whatever I document won't be good enough, where it's stored, how it's organized, will never be good enough because there will always be some aspect they don't understand, and if they don't understand it, it must be because I'm not doing good enough.
Turn over passwords and walk the fuck out tomorrow..
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
If the "pay reduction" is in writing I'd walk. They've fired you and are wanting you to work for peanuts.
This comment seems to be in relation to what I said about vacation and sick time. Those aren't a requirement where I live, they are a benefit offered by employer, they make the rules.
Technically they are not offered to part time employees, which I currently am. But they let it accumulate anyway, until now. So they just stopped accumulating.
I used to get a cell phone stipend which was kind of a retainer for "please check if we text you or call, just in case something crazy happens." They stopped that, presumably also because my hours are so reduced.
So did they "reduce my pay", well, kinda sorta. Officially their benefits were for full time, but they allowed it for me anyway, then stopped it. So kinda, kinda sorta, bending the rules, playing them a bit.
Dude - you were already reduced hours... This is change in your compensation - PERIOD. So they have declared a change - you need to tell them the change is fine and you are walking now.
Now - be nice if you want - ask them if they want to become a customer for $100/hr. Ultimately it should cost them less than keeping you on the payroll. They won't have to train someone new, etc.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
This is such a pain! I didn't actually turn in a notice or set a last day, which I'm regretting now. But I'm a non-confrontational person. I just want them to be happy and I want to personally feel like I've done a professional job leaving documentation behind. I'm just trying to figure out a balance.
The more you try to do, the worse it will be. You are going to give them false hope and build up false expectations. The more you do, the more they will be upset.
I feel this already. We had an hour+ meeting the day after I had the first talk. All the crap they want from me, new formats, how they want it, in what order. I already felt the pain of this very thing. Now I know, whatever I document won't be good enough, where it's stored, how it's organized, will never be good enough because there will always be some aspect they don't understand, and if they don't understand it, it must be because I'm not doing good enough.
Right, they are setting you up with impossible expectations in order to have someone to blame. It's unfortunate that your honest attempt to help them triggered this. But it is what it is. You are now in a position where you either say "No one to train means I'm done in two weeks" or you are stuck, forever, while they take advantage of giving you impossible requirements.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
If the "pay reduction" is in writing I'd walk. They've fired you and are wanting you to work for peanuts.
This comment seems to be in relation to what I said about vacation and sick time. Those aren't a requirement where I live, they are a benefit offered by employer, they make the rules.
Technically they are not offered to part time employees, which I currently am. But they let it accumulate anyway, until now. So they just stopped accumulating.
I used to get a cell phone stipend which was kind of a retainer for "please check if we text you or call, just in case something crazy happens." They stopped that, presumably also because my hours are so reduced.
So did they "reduce my pay", well, kinda sorta. Officially their benefits were for full time, but they allowed it for me anyway, then stopped it. So kinda, kinda sorta, bending the rules, playing them a bit.
Dude - you were already reduced hours... This is change in your compensation - PERIOD. So they have declared a change - you need to tell them the change is fine and you are walking now.
Or negotiate hard. Oh... you need me? NOW I'm valuable? NOW I don't get the same benefits? Okay, my hourly rate just went up 20%, take it or leave it.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Now - be nice if you want - ask them if they want to become a customer for $100/hr. Ultimately it should cost them less than keeping you on the payroll. They won't have to train someone new, etc.
Right, you are an MSP. It's time for them to be a customer. If they don't want to be one, walk. If they do want to be one, you'll save them all this wasted time.
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And all I wanted to do was open up a conversation so they could start looking for a replacement. I wasn't expecting a circus.
I feel no obligations here, except to be honorable to my own words. I'd love to walk out tomorrow except that I did actually promise I would help the next person get situated.
When I first hired on, the previous person took emails from me for over 3 months as I sorted everything out.
All I wanted to do was offer training to the next IT person. Instead it became a cluster of training everybody here in the office who isn't IT, and writing user manuals for every website I have a password for. And writing down a layperson procedure book for every task I ever performed. And writing friggin mind maps to show how every service interconnects with every other service.
The only thing I feel obligation to is my own word that I wouldn't leave them high and dry. There are other people here that depend on their jobs for income, I just wanted a replacement in my seat to keep things going. And I certainly do NOT want 20 daily phone calls because I walked out and everybody has to call me to fix every little thing. I just wanted a replacement.
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I think that I will also experience some of this stuff when I finally leave my current job. I don't have enough time in the day to do everything I need to be doing. Documentation has definitely suffered. But, they could have solved this problem by not placing the Jr IT admin position on hold, forcing me to continue on by myself.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
And all I wanted to do was open up a conversation so they could start looking for a replacement. I wasn't expecting a circus.
I feel no obligations here, except to be honorable to my own words. I'd love to walk out tomorrow except that I did actually promise I would help the next person get situated.
When I first hired on, the previous person took emails from me for over 3 months as I sorted everything out.
All I wanted to do was offer training to the next IT person. Instead it became a cluster of training everybody here in the office who isn't IT, and writing user manuals for every website I have a password for. And writing down a layperson procedure book for every task I ever performed. And writing friggin mind maps to show how every service interconnects with every other service.
The only thing I feel obligation to is my own word that I wouldn't leave them high and dry. There are other people here that depend on their jobs for income, I just wanted a replacement in my seat to keep things going. And I certainly do NOT want 20 daily phone calls because I walked out and everybody has to call me to fix every little thing. I just wanted a replacement.
I thought you said that they weren't looking to replace you. If they think that they are going to have random people following walk-throughs to replace you, you have no further obligation.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
And all I wanted to do was open up a conversation so they could start looking for a replacement. I wasn't expecting a circus.
Yeah, that's really unfortunate.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
I feel no obligations here, except to be honorable to my own words. I'd love to walk out tomorrow except that I did actually promise I would help the next person get situated.
But they declined that person. Your obligation to what you said is met. It's completely done.
