Dipping Toes Into Programming
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
Python’s strong suit is easy readability for teams and system automation. PHP’s strong suit is simple, traditional web applications.
Most big web apps that you know like WordPress and NextCloud are PHP. PHP is super easy to deploy tontraditional web hosts as well but Python is not.
Yeah I may do PHP instead. It does hit all the things I need, plus it will help with existing things I use like WP and such. You can even talk to salt API I think. At least I seen a library or whatever for PHP that will interface with it.
API pretty much always means that you don't need any specific language. Of course, that's not completely universal, but essentially universal. You basically always assume that everything talks to everything in this day and age. Making an API that was language specific would be absurdly complicated and even the most common "language focused" API out there, which is a native "internal data exchange" in JavaScript, is so well supported that even though you are speaking in native JavaScript Objects it is used as a universal data interchange format... you know it as JSON.
When working with a product today, if you are interfacing by writing code that goes INSIDE the project (like you submit it to Github and hope the package maintainer accepts it) then you care what language you are in to do so. But if you are writing software to talk over the network to another piece of software, it's all universal because they have to share that network format.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
This video might be useful for you, too.
https://mangolassi.it/topic/14309/standard-patterns-for-smb-bespoke-software-development/
You make some really good points in that video. Maybe I have been over thinking this and really, for what I would like to do, PHP would work. So now, why not PHP instead of python?
Python’s strong suit is easy readability for teams and system automation. PHP’s strong suit is simple, traditional web applications.
Most big web apps that you know like WordPress and NextCloud are PHP. PHP is super easy to deploy tontraditional web hosts as well but Python is not.
Yeah I may do PHP instead. It does hit all the things I need, plus it will help with existing things I use like WP and such. You can even talk to salt API I think. At least I seen a library or whatever for PHP that will interface with it.
API pretty much always means that you don't need any specific language. Of course, that's not completely universal, but essentially universal. You basically always assume that everything talks to everything in this day and age. Making an API that was language specific would be absurdly complicated and even the most common "language focused" API out there, which is a native "internal data exchange" in JavaScript, is so well supported that even though you are speaking in native JavaScript Objects it is used as a universal data interchange format... you know it as JSON.
When working with a product today, if you are interfacing by writing code that goes INSIDE the project (like you submit it to Github and hope the package maintainer accepts it) then you care what language you are in to do so. But if you are writing software to talk over the network to another piece of software, it's all universal because they have to share that network format.
I see, I didn't realize it was like that.
One of the things I searched for with all 3 of my considerations was that it "talked" to the Salt API, or at least REST API. They all do (PHP, JS, Python). So I guess then everything does.
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I am liking PHP more than Python. PHP seems so much easier in every way so far... but I'm not very far with either.
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I am liking PHP more than Python. PHP seems so much easier in every way so far... but I'm not very far with either.
If you are mostly focused on websites logic go php. This is the very application field for php. Python is a general purpouse lang. Still useful but for simple web stuff php is the entry point. Let say that if you have to do website jobs for the most, path could be php-> any framework of any general purpouse -> node.js
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I am liking PHP more than Python. PHP seems so much easier in every way so far... but I'm not very far with either.
I feel that PHP is the easiest language to learn. It was completely designed around simplicity from the very beginning, and was the first language designed specifically around the needs of making web apps.
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And since PHP 7 the performance has really leapt forward.
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@popester said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
Might be worth a scan. https://www.codementor.io/blog/worst-languages-to-learn-3phycr98zk?utm_content=posts&utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email&utm_term=post-3phycr98zk&utm_campaign=newsletter20180307
It doesn't list so many key languages, though. Doesn't really make sense as a list. And community engagement and jobs are both bad indicators - since community engagement is at best loosely related to value and jobs is a reflection of legacy support more than anything. Things like "utility for making products" aren't even considered, nor are some of the most important languages like JavaScript, Python, PHP or the ones that are obviously the worst, like VB.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
And since PHP 7 the performance has really leapt forward.
I've seen that. I pushed all my servers to PHP 7 a while ago.
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I'm sticking with PHP for now no matter what. I'm getting a bit in to it now, and it's really easy for me to understand and pick up.
I don't know if that's because I'm already used to loops and that type of logic already from PowerShell and BASH, but it's way easier for me to catch on than it was with Python.
But the differences are so small. I took a quick look at Python last night to compare it to PHP, and it was SO MUCH EASIER after I had done the same stuff with PHP.
So PHP is definitely going to be my gateway language, I've been wanting to learn PHP anyways, becuase it's just everywhere and I will get a lot of personal benefits from knowing it.
I'd rather do Python, but I feel learning PHP first will be better for me when I get into Python.
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I actually prefer PHP. I've tried some dot net, Java, and even some node.js (I haven't completely ruled this one out yet as I'm still learning what I like / not like about it).
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@dafyre said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I actually prefer PHP. I've tried some dot net, Java, and even some node.js (I haven't completely ruled this one out yet as I'm still learning what I like / not like about it).
PHP is quite good, I like it a lot.
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I really like Ruby, though.
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
But the differences are so small. I took a quick look at Python last night to compare it to PHP, and it was SO MUCH EASIER after I had done the same stuff with PHP.
Lots of programming is very cumulative that way. You should also be able to apply what you're learning back to powershell
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I really like Ruby, though.
I had to write a quick little code snippet in Ruby once, was not as intuitive |for| me as I expected.
Part of the problem is that I didn't believe the syntax my google searches were showing me.
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@flaxking said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I really like Ruby, though.
I had to write a quick little code snippet in Ruby once, was not as intuitive for=>me as I expected.
I think you mean the above...
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@scottalanmiller said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I really like Ruby, though.
I've not done much with that one. I tried a few things, but never really took off with it.
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I actually find it faster to build the interface in straight HTML, CSS, & Javascript and then let PHP or whatever handle the data transports and such.
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I've been digging through WordPress a little bit in the evenings to see how it's really set up, starting with index.php and following it.
It's freakin huge with so many moving parts and gears, I can see why there's so many devs lol.
But it's very interesting to see how it works at that level, and helps to learn a little too.
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@tim_g said in Dipping Toes Into Programming:
I've been digging through WordPress a little bit in the evenings to see how it's really set up, starting with index.php and following it.
It's freakin huge with so many moving parts and gears, I can see why there's so many devs lol.
But it's very interesting to see how it works at that level, and helps to learn a little too.
That will actually help if you ever find yourself having to clean up a hacked Wordpress site.
